Shotgun discarded with extra rounds

[Ranger Dan]

Recently at a monthly match had a shooter load 4 rounds in shotgun. The stage called for 2 rounds stoked. At the end of the stage we all noted there were 2 more rounds, one on the carrier and one in the magazine. Seems like there should be a penalty but I can't find anywhere in the SHB where discarding a shotgun with live ammo on the carrier is a penalty. Anyone???

[Flying W Ramrod]

Because there is none.

It's only a penalty if there is a live round in the chamber SDQ

If there is an expended in the chamber, and the shotgun is staged closed, it's a P for not cycling the action.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Digging a little deeper. There seems to be a conflict in these 2 rules for shotgun leaving a shooters hands. If you are restaging for future use, you would probably be firing another firearm yet it would be a MSV for not cycling the action before firing another firearm?

A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only (some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm):

- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (restaged for further use)

 

Minor Safety Violation (MSV) infractions include:

Not cycling the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the next firearm is fired.

[Jorge]

Overloaded rounds-Shotgun-loading more rounds than stage requires, or more than 6, whichever is less.  Glossary

Failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures.  P 29.   SDQ

He loaded more than 2 shotgun rounds, that the stage called for.

 

Firearm Cleared-no live or empty case in or on the chamber, magazine, or carrier.  Glossary

range operations-Shotgun will be CLEARED and discarded, etc, and Shotgun is safe to leave the shooter's hands EMPTY. Page 19

 

The shooter was not going to use the shotgun later, so it was not being re-staged for further use.

 

So, I would say Stage DQ, perhaps two, which would be MDQ.

[Ranger Dan]

Jorge:

"Empty" is just one of the options on PG 19

The second option is "No live round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange."

which is the case here.

[Flying W Ramrod]

4 hours ago, Ranger Dan said:

Digging a little deeper. There seems to be a conflict in these 2 rules for shotgun leaving a shooters hands. If you are restaging for future use, you would probably be firing another firearm yet it would be a MSV for not cycling the action before firing another firearm?

A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only (some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm):

- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (restaged for further use)

 

Minor Safety Violation (MSV) infractions include:

Not cycling the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the next firearm is fired.

2 separate things

Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (RESTAGED FOR FURTHER USE)

Means: you'll be using the shotgun again on that stage.

Not cycling the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the next fire is fired.

Means: you're done with the shotgun for that stage and won't be using it again. 

There is no conflict because there are different scenarios for these rules.

[Flying W Ramrod]

3 hours ago, Jorge said:

Overloaded rounds-Shotgun-loading more rounds than stage requires, or more than 6, whichever is less.  Glossary

Failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures.  P 29.   SDQ

He loaded more than 2 shotgun rounds, that the stage called for.

 

Firearm Cleared-no live or empty case in or on the chamber, magazine, or carrier.  Glossary

range operations-Shotgun will be CLEARED and discarded, etc, and Shotgun is safe to leave the shooter's hands EMPTY. Page 19

 

The shooter was not going to use the shotgun later, so it was not being re-staged for further use.

 

So, I would say Stage DQ, perhaps two, which would be MDQ.

There is no penalty for "overloading" any long gun.

The penalty occurs when something is done with the "overloaded" rounds, i.e. Shot downrange (P), used to complete a sequence after ejecting a round (P+M), left in chamber of gun, action open or closed (SDQ)

Other penalties are: Expended round left in chamber and action NOT cycled (MSV)

The only Possible penalty for loading 4 when the instructions called for 2 is 1: P for not following stage instructions 2: Get someone who knows the rules to write the stages.

[Ranger Dan]

16 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

2 separate things

Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (RESTAGED FOR FURTHER USE)

Means: you'll be using the shotgun again on that stage.

Not cycling the action of a long gun at the end of the shooting string before the next fire is fired.

Means: you're done with the shotgun for that stage and won't be using it again. 

There is no conflict because there are different scenarios for these rules.

I understand the difference, the conflict I see is "cycling the action before the next firearm is fired" in a split shotgun sequence, you would be required to restage with the action closed on an empty cartridge. This would violate the cycling the action before next firearm is fired?