Is this sight legal?

[Flying W Ramrod]

16 hours ago, marshal stone said:

CAS and WBAS have separate Shooter handbooks.

Show me where it states that if a rule is not covered in the WBAS handbook that you revert to the CAS handbook.

The only place they are combined is in the ROBS course. Then the rules separate to each discipline.

@Misty Moonshine correct me if I'm wrong.

Marshal Stone

 

You are correct.

Let's get the TG's and ROC involved and have them, as they are the regulatory agents, state that "WBSHB/MODULE/ROBS is the sole source for rules, and interpretations of rules, for Wild Bunch Action Shooting".  

I have no problem with this statement or direction. It will lessen, if not eliminate, disputes or misunderstandings we may experience concerning multiple rule books.

Since we're told to "Take it to the TG's and ROC", it appears those folks are, and should be, in control of what rules we follow, except SASS safety rules.

 

[Cardboard Cowboy]

See there is my huge problem.  I have no TG anywhere near me for WB or really Cowboy.  My closest CB club in my state is 250 miles away.  I have no idea about any WB TG's in my area.  So that is pretty much why I do my venting on the wire.  

CC

[El Chapo]

4 hours ago, Cardboard Cowboy said:

And there is the problem, and y'all wonder why WB is dying.  Heck it's basically dead on the East Coast.  All that is left for WB here are "side match's" at Cowboy state match's.  So we do end up shooting Cowboy with a 1911.  Targets are pretty big, close and stages are blistering fast.  Because we are shooting the basic Cowboy stage layout.

When we have "certified instructor's" providing wrong information because they were told/instructed wrong, leads the sport into a very disorganized direction.  Ever thought of reading/researching what you were told to see if it's correct or not?  Just because you're an instructor does not make you correct or all knowledgable.  Heck I apparently can read/interpret better than some of these so called instructors.  

Ok now my analogy/story for this type of thinking.  If you have been in the military, you may be able to relate.  For many years I was a small arms instructor (for the DOD), training our troops for combat.  One of my favorite classes was teaching the M2 machine gun. I have truthfully trained tens of thousands of troops on this weapon, with most of these classes conducted down range.  Where they finally really care about the weapon.  And the biggest problem area was headspace and timing of the gun.  

There is one correct way to do it, only one.  But soldiers are taught an incorrect method, normally omitting one step.  And the gun will work for a while, but it will eventually fail.  Now on a training range, not that big of a deal (as long as the gun does not blow up), they end up "hot seating" one or two guns and get done with qualification.  Then have a pile of non operational guns.   At this point they complain on the M2 being a POS.  When it is not, but they did not know how to set the gun up properly, READ THE F**** MANUAL!

So I go in and give my classes, and I point out this one step they are missing.  I get the deer in the headlight look and all state "I did not know that, is that something new?"  I dig out my 1943 M2 TM, and say nope not new.  Most all in unison state I was trained to "screw the barrel in all the way and then back it out 3-4 clicks."  And they thought the Head Space was correct.  May or may not be.  Mostly not.  Will work for a while but as the barrel gets hot, head space goes out the window.

So they were trained, improperly, this way (by so called instructors).  Then they get stuck teaching a class at some later time, and what do they do.  Regurgitate this incorrect information.  It amplify's out of control.  Eventually the Army adopts a new M2 MG, called the M2A1 fixed headspace MG.  Instead of attempting to fix decades of wrong training, they come up with a new weapon system.  

We are heading down that same path, with WB.  A comment about CAS having a rule and WB doesn't, go by CAS.  Is like me telling that troop, if the M240B MG has you set headspace of the barrel "this way", then apply that to the M2 MG.  Apples and oranges, If you want WB to be its own separate entity.  Why would you ever refer back to a CAS entity?

And no you won't find it in the ROIII handbook.  ROIII is common sense.  All these crazy question lately are not common sense.  

Cold morning for the start of NC state Cowboy Match.  With a small four stage WB "Side Match" thrown in.

CC

The newest M2 machine gun no longer needs headspace and timing set.  I'm not sure what they did to eliminate it because we had the style you're talking about.  But I guess the issuing of the headspace and timing tools is no longer the norm.

[Cardboard Cowboy]

Correct El Chapo.  Third shop now installs a permanent adapter onto the barrel extension, which the quick change barrel is screwed into.  Barrels are matched to the adapter by the manufacture, General Dynamics.  Barrels are dedicated to each gun now and tagged.  There are seven different adapters that can be installed onto the extension, and then barrels matched to the gun in sets.  Headspace and timing tools are no longer needed or issued.  At least to the units that have been fielded the M2A1, not all unit's have them.  Many of the infantry and Special units hate this new gun.  It really is, once again putting a band aid on a problem that should have been corrected by proper training.  

 

CC