JJ Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 Hi All - Friend of mine just had his 1911 Colt Mark IV worked on. This gun was made in the early 70's and never fired but for a few times. Recently the Main Spring, Recoil Spring and Extractor were replaced. Replacement springs and extractor were Wilson Combat replacements. The extractor was a Wilson Combat 'Bulletproof' stainless extractor. Extractor was tuned using the Weigand 1911 Extractor Adjusting Tool and tested to the 25 - 27 ounce tension recommended on their web site videos with the Lyman Electronic Digital Trigger Pull Gauge. Two magazines of bullets were fired through the gun earlier this afternoon. Bullets used were loaded (mine) with Winchester LPP Primers, 4.5 grains of Bullseye and Bear Creak 200 RNHB Molly Coated Bullets. I have used this load for years on my own guns and have not seen anything like this. The brass was picked up, placed in my pocket and tossed on the counter when I got home. When I looked down at the brass I noticed that most of the shells were 'dented' on the rim and there was a horizontal scratching on the brass. My first thought was that this brass was just stepped on. Then quickly noticed a potential larger problem. Was kinda hoping that someone with a much greater knowledge in what might have caused this 'problem' and an idea how to fix might chime in and let us know. Whatever is going on with is gun needs to be addressed before a couple of thousand rounds are cranked out. Thanks all for looking and perhaps commenting. J.J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted December 9 Share Posted December 9 (edited) The case is being slammed into the slide wall during ejection, probably around the ejection port opening. This is very common when the geometry (shape) of the extractor (which you just changed) is not yet fitted to your gun. The dent comes from impact, while the sideways scratches are caused by the high-speed "twist" imparted during ejection as the case is pulled on the right side by the extractor hook and hit in the left lower rear by the ejector. Look for where there is a shiny spot of "brass rub" on the slide. Often it's on the lower side of the ejection port. But some times in other locations. There is more work to do when fitting a new extractor than just setting the tension. One of the best but short descriptions that I have found is here, written by Bill Wilson: https://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm Look at the very last diagram very closely. If you understand all of the angles and beveling he shows, you may not have to do more study. OK, so you probably do not understand why he is so particular about EVERY facet (machined cut) shown on that extractor tip. So, read this one next, and SEVERAL times, as it is pure gold! https://www.1911forum.com/threads/steve-in-allentown-extractor-fitting.829865/ And the extractor section of John Marshall's instructions: https://sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reliability_secrets.htm He makes this statement that speaks volumes about just "slapping in " any company's new extractor: "Most factory extractors and many aftermarket extractors need attention to achieve the optimum in reliability." OK, the lazy way to solve cases hitting the slide, is to cut away the slide where the shiny brass impact spot shows up. The "lowered ejection port" found on lots of 1911s from the factory is this kind of fix, whether a gun really needs it or not. Opening the ejection port like that lets a factory get "no contact" ejection without having to do special fitting. John Browning did not think that it was necessary - his slide designs did not use a lowered ejection port. Case denting was fixed by hand tuning the extractor tip to turn loose of the case rim so that the case ejects straight out to the right, or even upwards at 2 o'clock. I'm sure you have seen 1911s that toss brass straight up to land on the shooter's head, as well. That too is due to a poorly shaped extractor hook. A tighter grip on the case by the highest part of the hook will pull the case out high (12 to 2 o'clock). A tighter fit on the case rim down low in the hook pulls the case out so it slams into the slide wall under the ejection port. Also, check that you have the firing pin stop fitted so that the extractor is not twisting in it's bore. A problem called clocking. Can cause the extractor to turn and hold onto the case in a deleterious manner. Also, look for severe gouge in the extractor cut of the fired cases. A sharp or poorly shaped extractor hook will put a "horizontal gouge" in the angle part of the extractor cut. good luck, GJ Edited December 9 by Garrison Joe 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Posted December 9 Author Share Posted December 9 Howdy Again All - Mr Garrison Joe - A great big WoW and Thank you for you response to my question. Your response was amazingly well written and should be a good reference to others. I will be quick to respond back that my knowledge with gunsmithing is dangerous at best and a Dremel has the potential of being a very expensive tool to use while working on guns. Last late winter while shooting the 2024 Wild Bunch Championship Match at Cowtown, the extractor in my Remington failed in the middle of the 42 shot handgun stage. I used my backup Remington for the remainder of the match. The broken extractor was replaced at EoT by a friend of ours from CA. It functioned just fine when used at the EoT WB Match. When I got back to Northern NV, the old extractor in my backup Remington was also replaced. While taking it to the range to test I noticed that the shells were being tossed in about a 25' radius. I then started to do some research on extractor tuning. The article I settled on was this one: http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2016/08/a-new-extractor.html Earlier this morning I read thorough all of the articles you posted links to and will study them again a number of times. Some great information in those articles for struggling gunwreckers like me. Interestingly enough the author of the article I mentioned, uses the same extractor tuning diagram that Bill Wilson (and the others you referenced) has in his article. It is now easy to see where Tony got his information from. After reading the Tony article, I purchased some micro files and then had to purchase another set of flat micro files along with a head thing that has about three sets of magnifying glasses on it. Off to the races (carefully) I went to filing the extractors on all three on my 1911's according to the diagram. They all toss the brass like they should with zero problems. Guess I am just a slow learner, however am able to learn with proper instruction. I will have to do some research/reading about this 'extractor twisting - Clocking' thing you mentioned. It looks like some intriguing research and learning. You also mention to "look for severe gouge in the extractor cut of the fired cases. A sharp or poorly shaped extractor hook will put a "horizontal gouge" in the angle part of the extractor cut." Yup - there is a definite extractor mark/nick on top of the bottom of the case and on the the side of the cases directly below the case dents. I attempted to get a picture of the extractor attach point, however even my iPhone 16 Pro camera could take a good enough picture to post. Later this week, we/he will have to so some 'careful filing' on the extractor on his gun. Thank you again for your help. You are a great reference person. So - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. J.J. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Posted December 9 Share Posted December 9 Wow, being new to 1911s, I'm impressed with how technical these "fitting" adjustments are! As always, thanks GJ for sharing your vast knowledge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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