Boots

[El Chapo]

Are there any rules except the following that apply to the wear of boots in Wild Bunch?

Quote

Outlawed Items: All types of athletic shoes or combat boots, no matter the material from which they are constructed. Note: Period military boots with non-grip enhancing soles if appropriate for the costume are legal for Wild Bunch Action Shooting.

Quote

Boots must be SASS Legal

 

Also, this may sound like a stupid question coming from a former American Soldier who was in fact issued "combat boots" and wore them while in uniform: what are "combat boots" as our rules describe?

Are boots that are not "military" boots permitted to have "grip enhancing soles"?

 

If you're wondering why I'm asking, it's because I have a closet full of boots I'd like to wear and it appears that at least some of this language is left over from older sets of rules where what "SASS legal" boots were must have been more specifically defined (outside of the costume categories).  I have no desire to "cheat" and after my knee surgery, I am not in any hurry.  But I'd also prefer not to have to resole my boots to something undesirable for their other, daily uses.

[Flying W Ramrod]

No footwear may have grip enhancing soles.

Wild Bunch is a take on WW1. Combat boots of that era are acceptable. Jungle boots, desert boots, etc, while combat boots, are not in the spirit of Wild Bunch.

Rent the movie, check out their footwear.

General rule of thumb, if it's not spelled out in the WBSHB and is in the CASHB, the CASHB is the rule.

[El Chapo]

7 hours ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

No footwear may have grip enhancing soles.

Wild Bunch is a take on WW1. Combat boots of that era are acceptable. Jungle boots, desert boots, etc, while combat boots, are not in the spirit of Wild Bunch.

Rent the movie, check out their footwear.

General rule of thumb, if it's not spelled out in the WBSHB and is in the CASHB, the CASHB is the rule.

What rule says that?  There are no rules in CAS that I can find that prohibit any kind of boots outside of the costume categories except those quoted.

The boots I'm talking about are not jungle boots or sneaker based boots of any kind.

I own the movie and I still have the questions presented in the first post.  I can only surmise that the comment regarding "grip enhancing" soles is a relic from a previous rule set that had some different provisions which are no longer there regarding what is "SASS legal."

Are the traditional jeep tire tread soles that our soldiers wore from the Korean War until about 15 years ago "grip enhancing" by your definition?

[JJ]

Mr. Chapo

I have a different way at looking at this footwear subject.

A number of years ago, at a cowboy match, I came running around a corner and slipped on some smooth wet concrete while wearing cowboy boots. As I hit the ground, I broke my right hand in three places. I spent a few months in uncomfortable casts. Those smooth bottom cowboy boots quickly went the way of the doo doo bird. I can not remember what boot I went to but it had to be something with a gripping sole.

Many years later I now wear 8" 'boots' that say Reebok on the back. They are desert brown color, lace up and have zippers on the side. The zippers are used frequently when the arthritis/gout flare up . The zippers have to be used so that I can fit into them. I have been questioned about these boots by many many folks. My response is generally something like this:  7 knee surgeries, an amputated toe on one foot, metal plates in the other foot that disallow the flexing of my big toe to get into boots, arthritis, gout, replaced hips, replaced shoulder and a back that has had 4 vertebrae fused says that I am going to wear something that is comfortable for me. I don't try to flaunt my shoe wear, however I am getting too old to be operated on any more. And no I don't have a 'Doctors Slip" for them because there is no such requirement.

As I travel to SASS Matches, I notice what others are wearing for shoes/boots. Many many shooters, have the same thoughts as I do. My feet hurt after many years of abuse. I I am going to be comfortable for the duration of any particular match that I attend and my shoes are a great deal of importance to me to being comfortable.

Would I consider wearing a pair of combat boots? I doubt it. I have limitations concerning what I wear for WB/Cowboy costuming. It is important for me to look 'kinda like' something that is period correct. However, while being questioned about my foot wear, I have never been questioned about the Recruiting Badge on my campaign hat, the chevrons on my collar, the Band and Honor Guard badges on my shoulder or the service stripes on my sleeve from the service I was in. I guess are are some limitations for the clothing police.

Good luck with your decision. Just don't let that decision interfere with with your passion for WB shooting.

J.J.

 

 

[El Chapo]

On 6/8/2024 at 8:20 AM, JJ said:

Mr. Chapo

I have a different way at looking at this footwear subject.

A number of years ago, at a cowboy match, I came running around a corner and slipped on some smooth wet concrete while wearing cowboy boots. As I hit the ground, I broke my right hand in three places. I spent a few months in uncomfortable casts. Those smooth bottom cowboy boots quickly went the way of the doo doo bird. I can not remember what boot I went to but it had to be something with a gripping sole.

Many years later I now wear 8" 'boots' that say Reebok on the back. They are desert brown color, lace up and have zippers on the side. The zippers are used frequently when the arthritis/gout flare up . The zippers have to be used so that I can fit into them. I have been questioned about these boots by many many folks. My response is generally something like this:  7 knee surgeries, an amputated toe on one foot, metal plates in the other foot that disallow the flexing of my big toe to get into boots, arthritis, gout, replaced hips, replaced shoulder and a back that has had 4 vertebrae fused says that I am going to wear something that is comfortable for me. I don't try to flaunt my shoe wear, however I am getting too old to be operated on any more. And no I don't have a 'Doctors Slip" for them because there is no such requirement.

As I travel to SASS Matches, I notice what others are wearing for shoes/boots. Many many shooters, have the same thoughts as I do. My feet hurt after many years of abuse. I I am going to be comfortable for the duration of any particular match that I attend and my shoes are a great deal of importance to me to being comfortable.

Would I consider wearing a pair of combat boots? I doubt it. I have limitations concerning what I wear for WB/Cowboy costuming. It is important for me to look 'kinda like' something that is period correct. However, while being questioned about my foot wear, I have never been questioned about the Recruiting Badge on my campaign hat, the chevrons on my collar, the Band and Honor Guard badges on my shoulder or the service stripes on my sleeve from the service I was in. I guess are are some limitations for the clothing police.

Good luck with your decision. Just don't let that decision interfere with with your passion for WB shooting.

J.J.

 

I actually started this thread because I had knee surgery in December after a motorcycle crash in September (not my fault!).  My biggest concern is falling and deceleration movements because of what was reconstructed in my knee (ACL, made from my quad tendon).  My doctor tells me that I am at increased risk of injury from the strength loss in my surgical leg until I can build that back (and maybe never, the studies show some of it may never return).  That said, he also says that in the practical sense, I don't need to be overly cautious as the activities I want to do, my age, and the intensity I'm likely to be able to do them at are not significantly associated with reinjury.  That said, pain is a real part of becoming an old man, and let me tell you, this has been a humbling experience for me even though I'm barely half the age of most of the people I shoot with.  I'm not paranoid, but I also don't want to risk falling if I can help it.  I also trashed my other knee in the Army, so dealing with at least some pain isn't new, but the surgery and rehab was a lot worse for a lot longer.

I don't want to wear combat boots.  I want to wear boots with lug soles.  I think they will have the most grip on gravel and dirt and the other loose surfaces of the range, at least the most of what is practical and what I already have--I'm not going to try to wear football cleats.  If I have to, I'll buy another pair or wear my leather soled cowboy boots.  But I also don't think lug soles provide me any advantage other than making it less likely I will slip and fall on a loose surface.  I don't want to look like a cheater, or hide behind some kind of doctor's exception, but if nobody is going to complain, I want to wear my lug sole boots.

I had a great discussion with my posse today at a CAS match, and it seems like a lot of the people doing this sport have spent at least some time thinking about their footwear because traditionally constructed cowboy boots can be really hard on the feet and knees.  I like my conventionally constructed boots and I wear them at more matches than not.  But if I have to be on my feet all day, or if the stages have a lot of movement, or if the arthritis is just not cooperating that day, or the surface is loose, something grippy on the bottom is an advantage I don't want to give up unless someone is going to make a big deal out of it.

Edited June 9 by El Chapo