Model 12 and shell capacity

[Go West]

Forgive me for being ignorant, but I'm seeing shell capacity of 3-5 rounds. Is there a plug to be removed or what? 

[Garrison Joe]

"seeing shell capacity" - do you mean you have tested some 12s by trying to fill the magazine, or you are reading stuff, and finding variances (or even errors) in what was written about the 12 in some references?

The Model 12 shotgun was built to hold 6 rounds in the magazine and one in the chamber.  Some may only take 5 rounds in the magazine and have them feed properly, due to tolerances, magazine spring design and manufacturing defects.  With the modifications done for a Wild Bunch shotgun, shorter followers and shorter springs can be installed to make sure 6 rounds of 2 3/4" ammo will fit and feed.

Now, there is a common "cheap" Model 12 variant, the Model 25.  It was built with a 6 round magazine too. It was built in sold, non-takedown frame only, and only in 12 gauge.  Should be marked on the barrel as a Model 25. Note - not legal in Wild Bunch under current rules.

Within the regular Model 12 line, there was a 3" chambered Heavy Duck Gun.   That is one to avoid for Wild Bunch, due to the design variations and hard to find parts.  It usually is hard to slick up.

Waterfowl hunting regulations limit repeater shotguns to holding 3 rounds at a time, so a magazine limiter plug that limits the rounds in the magazine to just two is commonly used.  If you can't load at least 5 rounds in the tube, there could be a limiter plug - it's usually wooden or plastic and fits inside the coils of the magazine spring.  There could also be rust, dirt, mouse nests, dents and other problems with the magazine tube that prevent properly filling it.

So, disassemble the shotgun to the point that you can take out the magazine spring and follower, and you will probably find the problem, if there is one.

good luck, GJ

Edited November 17, 2023 by Garrison Joe

[Go West]

I was looking at a Guns.com listing of Model 12's and the ads reported various capacities. Since I don't know much about those guns, I thought I would ask here. I don't want to purchase a gun that is not ready to go.

[Garrison Joe]

Just shows you how little folks selling guns know, or are willing to disclose. 

BTW - there will most likely be no Model 12 you can buy that is "ready to go" for Wild Bunch. If you buy one from a reputable fellow WB shooter, then yes, you might find one RTG.  One way to do that is to keep a close eye on the Wild Bunch Classifieds forum.

Find a local gunsmith that knows how to work on WB shotguns (perhaps folks at Old West Guns and Gunsmithing - Squibber) and frequent them.   

https://www.facebook.com/oldwestgunsandrepair/

 

From buying a couple of Model 12 guns through GunBroker, I can tell you these 60-100 year old firearms are often in need of a least two major repairs EACH that have to be fixed, and then you will want tuning and barrel shortening on them as well.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed fine, like-new shape Winchester 12 (or 97, either) for bargain prices.  Unless you can take the time to go to lots of estate/garage sales and just happen to find the proverbial unicorn -  "Grandpa's old shotgun - don't know what it is - how about $200?"

good luck, GJ

Edited November 17, 2023 by Garrison Joe

[VICIOUS8014]

If I may add the Winchester 97 often do not take 6 shell. I have added a model 12 Winchester follower, these are shorter then 97s and shortened the spring in the tube to allow a full 6 rounds. Also there is kits for sale to do this.

[Garrison Joe]

All I've needed to make a 97 hold six in the tube is just a pair of side-cutter pliers.  Trim the spring so the uncompressed spring hangs out of front of mag tube about 4" and you will get positive feeding and 6 in the tube in all the guns I've tuned for WB.  And if you make a mistake, a Remington 870 spring is an excellent repair part.

good luck, GJ

[Boggus Deal]

There is also a Model 12 Featherweight that is a takedown of a different type than the typical Model 12. It only holds 4 in the magazine. If I remember correctly, it was only made a few years around 1960.

[Big Boston locked out]

On 11/17/2023 at 3:50 PM, VICIOUS8014 said:

If I may add the Winchester 97 often do not take 6 shell. I have added a model 12 Winchester follower, these are shorter then 97s and shortened the spring in the tube to allow a full 6 rounds. Also there is kits for sale to do this.

I was looking through my 1897 parts drawer and noticed a shorter follower without the two raised witness rings and it was a bit shorter than the original 1897 follower. I installed it and could feed six into the magazine. It functioned normally. Investigation indicated it was a Model 12 follower. However, other than your post, I've not been able to find any mention of the 12/97 follower swap.

 

BB

[Rafe]

When I bought my model 12 it had a wooden plug like Joe said, it was an easy removal and now I can stoke 6 in the magazine.  Still would like to get her slicked up and have the barrel cut down to 20" as the serial numbers are different there is 0 collector value. 

[Boggus Deal]

10 hours ago, Rafe said:

  Still would like to get her slicked up and have the barrel cut down to 20" as the serial numbers are different there is 0 collector value. 

I know a guy.