John Boy Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Declaring it on the line and showing it is what matters. Boggus - I agree 100% ... showing is what does matter If I may - let's discuss the how between a Model 1897 and Model 12: This rule book requirements really is applicable to '97's that have an external & visible hammer that can be either placed on the safety setting or hammer down - of course both positions on an empty chamber - that the TO or an astute RO can identify too Page 12, Jul 2014 Handbook RANGE OPERATIONS • Loaded shotguns must be staged with the muzzle downrange, the action closed, the chamber empty, and the hammer either on the safety notch or fully down. (Failure to comply, SDQ As for the Model 12's, the RO Committee made the decision for assurance that the internal hammer is down accordingly: • Shooters using the Model ‘12 shotgun must follow this additional safety procedure: Under the direct supervision of the TO/CRO on the firing line they must point the muzzle in a safe direction and pull the trigger. If the hammer falls, SDQ. Failure to follow this procedure is a SDQ. It is the shooter’s responsibility to ensure this procedure is followed before beginning the course of fire I support a much safer way for discussion by the Committee to determine that the Model 12 internal hammer is down on an empty chamber: * At the loading table, with an open action, show the LO that the chamber is empty * Rack the forearm forward * Set the external (visable) trigger lock to the safe position ... the pin physically blocks the trigger precluding that the firing pin can be put into battery * Then load the magazine tube * At the line, the shooter points the muzzle in a downward safe position * Moves the trigger lock pin off safety to the fire position * Pulls the trigger * The TO hears an audible noise of the hammer dropping that is positive proof that that hammer is down The deficiency with the current procedure is: with a light trigger finger push and a heavy trigger pull ... and no audible sound ... there is no assurance that the Model 12 hammer is down! Think about it, the model 12 has an external visible trigger lock - and is currently no being used to show and determine with an audible sound that the hammer is down at the line before staging the shotgun and course of fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Frank Norfleet Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 John Boy, What we have now is about as simple as it is gonna get. Why complicate it? Try racking the slide on a M12 that the trigger hasn't been pulled on. Mine won't open unless I pull the trigger or hit the slide release button. There is no deficiency in the current protocol. BTW we have a safety on our 1911 we don't use either. JFN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tully Mars Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Most current consistent model 12 user' s are accustomed to the firing line procedures and for the most part remind the TO that they are shooting a M12. This process took a long time to instill in shooters, TO's and spotters. Heck we are still working on it. It's the main reason I shoot a 97', so I don't have one more thing to think about. By reversing the procedure to a hammer click being heard from no hammer click being heard will set people up for failure. And as HJ said most WB matches do not have a loading table officer to double check loading of the M12. Tully P.S. Allie and ST, thanks for the kind words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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