Elwood James
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Posts posted by Elwood James
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Here’s where I put my plug in for incorporating the Teddy Roosevelt and Doughboy into the mix. Move the targets out to rifle ranges and/or make them smaller if range limited. CN Double has posted good responses from his club. If you haven’t allowed your shooters this option in a monthly, I would highly encourage you to experiment. Let me know if you have any questions.
EJ
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If side match scenarios are approved:
Round count for Doughboy will be 21 pistol, 5 shotgun and 10 rifle.
Round count for Teddy Roosevelt will be 21 pistol, 5 shotgun and 7 rifle.
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Looks like fun.
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Page 27 of handbook under illegal items:
Slings or Bayonets on main match long guns.
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As a follow up. I’m willing to bet your local club would allow you to use it at a monthly match. It would not be legal for a SASS sanctioned event.
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Unfortunately No. Per the SASS Wild Bunch Handbook, page 12, under Shotgun Requirements, it specifically states: Compensating ports are not allowed.
EJ
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Doc,
I sent a note to Legendary Lawman asking for a ruling. My guess is it will be legal, because the manufacturers offered recoil pads on rifle caliber lever guns produced before the end of WW1.
EJ
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Awesome! Congrats on a great start.
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Abe E.S.
Most shooters carry at least one or two spare shotgun rounds on their belt in case they need to reload due to a malfunction or shucked round. You can not make up a Miss, but you are able to use legally acquired rounds to fire the round count specified in the stage. If there is a stage that requires multiple reloads, I use an extra shotgun belt that I have from cowboy. Additionally, you can always safely stage rounds at the different engagement positions in order to complete the stage.
EJ
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Per Hondo: 24 shotgun 32 rifle and 112 pistol. That’s 4 legal stages... probably won’t be that much, but you should bring it!
BTW, we will have some of the Roughriders shooting Doughboy and Teddy Roosevelt for demonstration purposes. If interested, plan accordingly. There will be no awards, just bragging rights, if you decide you want to play with the new categories.
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You can always reload from the belt any legal round and you may also pick up a dropped round per SASS rules. However some clubs do not allow you to pick up a round if it is on the ground. Some shooters will carry an extra mag with one round—it is perfectly legal. You also have the option of loading a full mag, release the slide, drop the mag (you now have a round in chamber and no mag) and fire. The 1911 is now empty with slide forward. You are legal to move or set down the empty gun.
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There is not a limit at this time. Depending on the targets and ranges a club has, it may be beneficial for them to establish a limit. AR steel and/or place the targets farther out is recommended because of the higher velocities associated with with rifle caliber weapons. As a result a max velocity has not been established. Depending on feedback, it may be looked at down the road.
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Bolt open is for the Nagant—Bolt will not close on an empty chamber with 5 rounds in the magazine. .
Each stage description should have a round count and separate target engagement guidance (5, 7 and 10 shots do not always fit in the same target sequence) for WB, DB and TR. Sometimes we use same targets sometimes we separate WB from the other two depending on depth of berm. Timing wise, 5 rounds out of DB and TR run about the same as 7 from a WB rifle. Especially if you put the targets a little farther out. If you run a reload in DB (10 rounds), it will take a little longer than a full round of 10 in WB and 7 in TR. We usually only have one DB reload per shoot. As you run the stages you will find ways to keep the timing fairly equatable. Bottom line, you are going to have to make adjustments to get it working for your range, targets and shooters. It is definitely worth the effort.
EJ
I’ll get a couple of stages written by Hondo and send them to you.
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Per the rule book:
BOLT ACTION MILITARY MATCH
The rifle must be an original caliber bolt-action rifle issued by any country to its military forces through the end of WWII. It must be as issued with original iron battle sights and NO external modifications. Internal modifications are allowed. Faithful reproductions are allowed. Unless an exception is listed for a specific match, ALL BAMM bullets must be of pure lead or lead alloy. Gas checks are allowed but NOT jacketed bullets.
If it is original configuration and caliber as issued by the Philippine government, it is legal for BAMM.
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Here is an article from the blue press on 1911 magazines that might help you eliminate one possible problem.
Good luck
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On the bright side it does not restrict us from shooting machine guns!
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If anyone has questions on how to incorporate Doughboy and Teddy Roosevelt into your monthly WB program, please give me a shout. I’m sure Dusty is also willing to answer any questions you might have.
Have fun digging through your safe to find something else to play with.
EJ
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Unable to upload the summary file. I copied the changes. Had to copy and paste. Enjoy.
SUMMARY OF 2021 WILD BUNCH RULE CHANGES
As of March 1, 2021
We have added wording to several the rules to help clarify them.
• 1911 ribs that are legal. Handbook, page 6.
• Holsters – While holsters must be of traditional or military design,
they may depart from the vertical by no more than 30 ̊. Handbook,
page 14.
• The rule on leaving the loading table with a cocked long gun has been
clarified to conform to the cowboy rule. The cocked, empty long gun can be corrected at the firing line before it leaves the shooter’s hands in accordance with the cowboy rules. Remember that in Wild Bunch, long guns are still considered safe when the hammer is in the safety notch. Handbook, page 20 & 21 and RO Manual, page 21.
• While there are distance guidelines for targets, size and quality of
each target will be deciding factors in their placement. As always, Match Directors are encouraged to use a variety or reactive targets.
Match Director’s Handbook, page 2 & 3.
• Female (protected) categories are explained as well as overall
winners. MD Handbook, page 3.
• Wording has been added in two sections to make it clear that 1911
magazines may be loaded at any time, not just at the loading table. • The pocket RO card wording has been corrected to show a Stage DQ
for an empty long gun that slips and falls and breaks the 170 ̊. RULE CHANGES
• Safe condition of the 1911 to leave the shooter’s hands. The
difference before the 1911 was first charged has been eliminated. There is now only one rule. Handbook, page 8.
• Magazine pouches are no longer restricted to two pouches per slide.
All pouches must still conform to the body etc. but a slide may have any number of pouches on it. Handbook, page 14.
• Two new side match suggestions, Teddy Roosevelt and Dough Boy with guidelines have been added. Handbook, page 17
• While Match Directors can run monthly matches in any way they see
fit, the rules state that the Garand is not part of Wild Bunch Action
Shooting. Handbook, page 17
• While it has always been the policy of SASS that any shooter needing
assistance should be accommodated, this has been clarified. Handbook, page 23 & 25.
CLARIFICATIONS
• There have been additional clarification and suggestions on Power
Factor Testing. Match Director’s Handbook, page 8 & 9.
• The scoring of Stage DQs, a Did Not Start (DNS) and Did Not Finish
(DNF) are clarified. Match Director’s Handbook, page 3. • The definition of “overloaded rounds” has been added for clarification. It includes using an additional magazine once you have fired the required number of rounds for the stage. RO Manual, page 26.
• The penalty for laying down the 1911 with a loaded magazine inserted has been clarified as a Stage DQ.
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Thanks for all the work.
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Thank you for all you have done. It is truly appreciated. Hope to see you around the range.
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It will be a 12 stage match. Serenity is Match Director and is already working to make it a true WB event. Not official, but they are looking at side matches the afternoon after warm ups. Do not expect a cowboy shoot with 1911’s.
I just wanted to get the word out. Just because cowboy is full does not mean WB is not available.
Hope to see as many folks as possible. It will really help our standing with SASS. The impression of some is there are very few true WB only shooters. A good showing would really help our case when we are trying to make new WB things happen.
BTW, Oklahoma WB state as well as the SW regional Territorial WB Championship shoot will held 1-3 October. Please pencil us in if you want a taste of things to come for future Nationals. Hondo Tweed puts on a top notch shoot.
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There are still slots for WB at EOT! We will have enough shooting to make up for any desire to shoot cowboy!
Slings
in Wild Bunch Rules Forum
Posted
Good question, that is not specifically addressed. Most run a sling on BAMM rifles. IMHO, running a sling falls under the Mil spec as issued from a government before end of WWII requirement.
I’ll run it up the flag pole.