JJ

Mr. GJ - Thank you for the answers to both of my questions. Concerning the Mainspring question, I knew the trigger pull was the same as you stated. I wasn’t sure about changing the mainspring out to a stiffer one if that would change the hammer striking power. It makes sense that it would. At this point, I am satisfied with the mainsprings I re-ground and have tested in my two 38 rifles. So far they seem to work well. The person that showed me how to grind down mainsprings knew what he was talking about and I was glad he shared some of his knowledge with me. . Your response to the shotgun reloading question was very informative. Hadn’t thought about your response to testing/chroning the lighter loads with a double. With the lighter loads I now use and the even lighter loads I have loaded, I place a 1/2” square piece of heavy weight bond paper on top of the shot. For whatever reason it holds the crimp from sinking. I have a good supply of Clays left, however saving that for cowboy rifle/pistol reloading. When the Titewad runs out will start on an 8 pound bottle of Winchester AA Lite powder I managed to obtain. After that is gone - Perfect Pattern. I have called Hodgdon and talked to their reloading folks about reloading shells way lower than their published loads. They were not very helpful. Suspect it was a company liability issue. For myself (and perhaps others), the answers you respond back with to my ‘somewhat’ goofy questions make an excellent reference. Thank you again for your help. Sincerely - J.J.

Hi All - Been reloading for close to 40 years and have a question concerning shotgun loads. First question (buried in here somewhere): Have quite a few pounds of Titewad left. The loads used in my past have been with 15.2gns (Titewad) and a 3/4oz lead load using Claybuster 3/4oz wads. These rounds are starting now to hurt after my shoulder is being slammed with the 6 rounds of WB Shooting. So I loaded some 3/4oz loads with 14.7gns of Titewad and got a velocity of 1105fps on the chrono. My goal to get a load to under 1000fps. I have bushings for my MEC 9000 that will drop 12.6gns and 11.6gns of Titewad. My question(s) centers around this: Other than using the chronograph to determine velocity how does a back yard reloader determine the pressure of these small loads? I guess I don't wish to get a load that shoots lower that is dangerous. How is that determined or am I just a 'worry wart'?? Second Question (again buried in here somewhere): A number of years ago swapped out my tuned main springs on my two Uberti 73 WInchesters with coil main springs. Over the past year the coil springs have started to fail. The springs have been replaced along the way over those years, however have noticed that new springs ordered seem to start failing in just a few months. Have added washers to the coil springs to make them work, but it just isn't working like the old days. Last winter, while at EoT and friend of mine schooled me on grinding out and polishing flat springs. One of the Winchesters was was refitted with a 'tuned flat spring' and just like the old days, it has given me 'zero' problems. This morning swapped out the second rifle from coil to flat main spring. I have three guns that have flat springs. Two 38/357 rifles and a 45LC rifle. The 45LC rifle came with a tuned flat spring. I measured the trigger pull on all three this morning. The two 38's have have trigger pulls of 1lb 10oz and 2lb 6oz. The tricked out 45 has a pull of 2lb 5oz. The 1lb 10oz rifle easily sets off Winchester Primers. Have not tested the other 38 to see if it sets off the Winchester Primers (it's cold outside right now). The 45LC uses only Federal Primers with no issue. Finally the second question. It is easy to determine the trigger pull. Now is there ANY correlation between the trigger pull stiffness and the force of the hammer striking the firing pin??? Don't think there is a real answer to that question, so that's why asking others that are much smarter and proficient and this than I ever hope to be. Thanks for reading all. Merry Christmas to all of you and a Happy New Year. J.J.

Winchester Mdl 25 Hummm . . . . Been reading and pondering this thread for a few day now and still somewhat confused. Also have been shootin' WB for a long time. Quite frankly, NEVER heard of a Winchester Mdl 25. Of course, that should not mean anything to anybody. I don't know a lotta things about many things. I liked it after looking it up. Less parts to fail than the Winchester 97 has. I am puzzled why shooting this particular Model of a Winchester scattergun should make any difference to anyone in WB?? The Winchester 97 is allowed in WB. The 97, apparently, is allowed to be used in WB with both the take-down and solid frame models. Did not find anything in the WB Handbook about not using the solid frame 97. In my past, I have used all of my 97's for WB. All 4 of the Winchester 97's I own have been modified to take 6 shells as the 2 Norinco's I have. Have used them all before diving into the 3 Winchester Mdl 12's that I now have. What difference should the Winchester Mdl 25 make to anyone if used? I am confused with the 'must be approved' discussion. J.J.

Last summer at the Northwest Regionals in Jerome ID, the Snake River Western Shooting Society offered those two categories at their match. I know folks that shot both categories and they had a 'Hoot'!! Why the powers to be canceled these two categories out as main match categories is an enigma to me. What harm did it cause to leave as it was??? Here is the link to their match: https://www.casidaho.net/sass-wild-bunch-territorial J.J.

Thinking the belt is buckled on your backside and the holster is supposed to be placed next to t he shotgun shell holders. Could be wrong. Been wrong before, will be wrong again. However, it is a nice looking rig. J.J.

Hello Mr. Miller - As I read your short note here on this wire, can only wonder what has prompted this one liner? Is SASS WB ready to sent to the slaughter house and why the sense of urgency that now is the time for all of us WB shooters express our concerns to SASS through our TG’s? The bigger concern with your statement is why all the secrecy? There has to be a reason why this was generated. . . . . Why not place your best foot forward, spit out your reasons for this and dispense with the suspense?? J.J.

Mr. Moonshine - I dropped back into the WB Forum to see if anybody had furthered along this thread. I suspected that if anyone was to make any comments that it might be you. By the way, I do not consider that to be a bad thing. Before I get further along in this, I have to repeat a quote of a person that I met quite some time ago while shooting WB at some of the California State WB Matches at DDCT. This quote from him expresses my thoughts also: "I actually enjoy it more than CAS (I know - Sacrilege!)" Your response on the first read through reads well enough. The second time through I had some questions. Your first statement I can agree with completely. Your second sentence is where the questions start. You state: "there is a ton of conversations taking place almost on a daily basis regarding great ideas for WB". What are these conversations? Our TG has never mentioned anything these conversations? Another of your comments draws questions to my mind. You state: "WB is growing at an unprecedented rate". Where is the data to back this up? The first part of the sentence that contains the last statement also states this: "TG's and WBROC are all talking and there will be several topics at Land Run and again at EOT 2026." Interestingly enough our TG has not stated anything like this. Neither have the TG's, that I spoke to, in the areas we traveled to shoot WB Matches this year. With one exception (and one match only) I have not noticed any type of significant growth in WB. From April to August our travels were directed to matches that also held WB Matches. Not side matches, but real 10 stage WB Matches. Let me tell you what I learned. With that one exception most of the WB targets were further out than I have ever shot. The shooters at the top will always be at the top. It's from the middle of the pack to the bottom is where the discontent is. At award ceremonies, match directors ask the crowd if they had a good time at their match. The guys at the top of the heap are mostly quiet. You can catch an attitude that some of those enjoyed the match. Those that didn't are quiet. It's too bad that match directors can't be sitting in the back, anonymously, and listen to what others have to say about the targets further back than last year, procedurals are up because of ridiculous scenarios and this misses they all had. Then listen to them state they aren't coming back to this again. This didn't happen at just one of the matches. For my own self been to matches that had targets 63' back (correct figure, because a person in the posse before day 1 took out his 100' tape measure and measured the distance). Been to matches, this year, where out of a 17 man posse, the Day 1 had 15 procedurals. Day 2 brought only 12 on the same stage. Was at a match with misses like this: This is after the Top 5 shooters, 10, 5, 9, 12, 16, 31, 33, 23, 31, 7, 6, 35, 25, 27, 21, 30, 37, 25, 28, 43, 28, 24, 42, 57 and 34. Listening to those guys at the lower half of this match did not express much of an interest of coming back next year. Another of the matches I attended went something like this. Before Day 1 started, some of the club officers realized that targets had been sent waaaay to far out. They dragged all of the targets on the bays 3' in. At the end of Day 1, upon advice for some shooters, these same club officers dragged all of the targets further in by 10'. On day 2, the closest target was 18' back. Not a respectful distance for a WB Match for that one set of targets. The others were further back. I could go on much more. I think everyone that has made it this far has an understanding what I am attempting to get across. Of all the WB matches we attended this summer, there was not a single WB match that had a clean shooter. Neither did the 38/45 rifle issue seem to be an issue to most anyone. So where is this going? All this little person in the WB shooting community would like to see is some answers to statements above. By the way, the one exception to far out targets was a 10 stage match, where the targets were in even closer than I like to shoot WB. What those close in targets did was allow the fast shooters at the match (I was on a posse with some really, really fast 1911 shooters) to spray away. I learned that just like at the Tombstone Cowboy Match, no targets can be brought in close enough to where they will not be missed. There was not a single clean shooter at this match either. And No, I do not believe that WB should be dragged down to WB Shooting at close Cowboy targets. Where is the happy medium. A good match director, pared with a person who is experienced at setting WB stages, knows how to give their audience an enjoyable WB match experience. I'm not going to give up WB shooting. WB shooting is still is enjoyable. However, I m going to start voting, with our hard earned $'s, to attend matches that are enjoyable. Tired of spending thousands of $'s, traveling for days with hundreds of miles on the truck for hours and hours, the cost of fuel going up and not have an enjoyable time. There has to be a happy medium out there. Am also tired of listening to match directors state "this is a state/regional/national/world match. It's supposed to be challenging." My belief is a quote from the person who taught me how to shoot WB and coached me everywhere we met up. His statement was this: "Set a match so that the shooters out shoot the targets and not the targets out shoot the shooters." Kinda an encompassing statement when you think about it. This year in our travels, we met a whole gaggle of great new shooters to us. We look forward to seeing them on a range again. Perhaps all of those folks mentioned above that are in the know, can start to plan just a little differently to make matches just a little more enjoyable. Thanks for reading this probably somewhat boring saga and have a super weekend. J.J.

And where are the questions/results in this survey going? The survey was completed by April 2025. It took until July 2025 to see the results posted on this WB Wire. Why so long? Now, if I read this correctly, some here don't have a clear understanding of the questions after the fact and there isn't a clear understanding whether or not any of this will even be discussed at the Land Run Match because those in the know have not seen an agenda to find out if this survey will be discussed. I'm just a little guy within the SASS WB community with very little input. Reading these posts in this thread, to me, says the results of a very small group within the SASS WB community who took the time to respond to the survey will, in all probability, not see any rule changes (or perhaps any discussion) within my foreseeable future. What a shame. J. J.

Mr. JG Thank you for your answer. I read your response over a few times last night and again this morning. Ran out time yesterday for responses. Will follow your advise VERY closely. Ordered a set of diamond drilling devices for the rotary last evening to finish off this portion of gun project. The place the bits were ordered from say 'Delivery on Friday'. We'll see. Now thinking it is time to replace the factory barrel. It rubs hard on many places. Its the only thing left to replace on this gun. Again - thank you Respectfully - J.J.

Not so sure if this the right place to ask this question however here it goes. A number of months ago purchased a stock GI Rock Island 1911 45acp with the purpose of making it into a 'Modern Category Shootin' Iron'. Many months later I very close to getting this gun ready to use in a WB Match. I just one problem yet to solve and it relates to the title of this thread. I purchased a Wilson Combat Semi-Extended Slide Stop for this gun. It looked cool on their website. Did not know this at the time of ordering that part. This slide stop does not come with the little drilled dimple hole on the end of the slide stop. The slide stops on my Colt MK IV and two Remington R1's all have a dimple drilled into the ends of the slide stop. Well that's not totally a correct statement. The Colt MK IV has a little grove cut into the end of the slide stop. I believe what the dimples/grove purpose is for is to hold the slide stop in position while firing so that the slide does not prematurely slip up and lock the slide back until the magazine is empty. It's amazing what Mr. Google can answer when asked the question of why the Wilson Combat Semi-Extended Slide Stop does not have the little dimple. Its answer was that Wilson Combat does not believe the dimple is required if the plunger spring is strong enough to hold the Wilson Slide Stop into the correct position until the magazine is empty. Fast forward a few weeks after the frustration of the slide locking back prematurely on numerous occasions and then discovering the original RI plunger spring was a little shorter (worn out??) than the springs in my other 1911's. Wilson Combat new stainless steel plunger assemblies were ordered and installed. Today while testing new ammo loads, the darn slide locked back while bullets were still in the magazine. So much for the thought that new plunger assemblies would fix the problem . . . . . Well - to me there are three solutions: 1) Place the original Rock Island Slide Stop back into the gun. It has the little dimple drilled into it. 2) Order another cool looking extended slide stop release from a different company that has the dimple drilled on the stop. 3) Find a way to drill a little dimple in the end of the Wilson Combat Slide Stop without spending another $75 dollars for purchase and shipping of a different slide stop. Any solutions on how to drill this little dimple would be greatly appreciated. I did attempt to drill a dimple into the end of the Wilson Combat Slide Stop. As I thought would happen, the bit just danced all around the end of the slide stop without biting. I thought perhaps could use a spring loaded punch for a marker and then with a carbide bit just tap a little dimple in?? Will be free to admit, I am not a real 1911 mechanic. I know enough to be dangerous and (more importantly) to severely limit my use of dremels on guns. I enjoy the experience of learning new things and have had quite a bit of good advice from others on this forum. Any advice on how to correctly do this dimple thing would be appreciated. Much easier to ask for help than to spend another arm and leg on parts I have messed up. As another passing note about this project gun, am convinced when this project is finally completed probably could have purchased a new Kimber for less money :-). However, what would be the fun in that! J.J.

Hey All Thank you for the replies. Mr. Chapo - She caught it good. Almost like she was stomping crickets in the garage during the summertime. No possible way to fix. Mr. GJ - Thank you for answer. I did look at the website you referenced, previously, and noticed the set screws on the triggers you referenced were on the back without the threaded hole in the front. Plain and simple, I wasn't sure so thought it best to ask. Will order a trigger from Harrison shortly after I push the 'Submit Reply' tab. Thank you again with your responses. J.J.

Howdy all - So here goes the background. Today completely disassembled my Remington R1 for its semi-annual (??) cleaning. During the process of reassembly, my other half came out to talk to me. During the 'talk' the frame was turned down before the magazine release button was replaced. As the trigger dropped down to the ground bounced around a few times it was then stepped on the other half and really really bent. As I slowly stooped down to pick up the trigger and held it up for both of us to look at I said to her, "No worries. When we are done here will order another trigger." As I started to look for a traditional trigger, quickly determined this was not as easy of a project as I thought. All the websites Mr. Google came up with have many many triggers to choose from. However, most of those triggers displayed seemed to fit in a 'Modern' gun and were not suited for the 'Traditional' gun. I did manage to find a couple of short and long solid triggers. However those that I could find had a hole drilled for a set screw trigger adjustment. The latest edition of the WB Shooters Handbook has some information on what types of triggers that can be used. The following is the quote that I am centering on while attempting to order a new trigger: Short or long solid triggers are permitted. No flat or lightweight match triggers are allowed. I believe I understand what the 'flat or lightweight match triggers" designation references. What I don't understand is if I order a 'Short or long solid trigger' does the little hole at the bottom of the trigger somehow designate that trigger to now be an illegal trigger for a Traditional WB gun? If the set screw is removed and the little hole filled with (whatever) does it become a 'legal' traditional trigger? I suspect if i did this, no one would notice the difference. Just trying to this correctly. Or - if someone in this WB reading community can point me to a 'Traditional' trigger to order, that would save hassles in the long run. Thanks for reading and any help that others can provide. Respectfully - J.J.

What Marshal Stone said - This surprises you because?? I am thrilled that the young lady on the cover of the January 2025 Chronicle is a friend of mine. Met her (and her father) a number of years ago at a Minnesota State Cowboy Match. She sat down at the table I was sitting at (by myself) and proceeded to talk to me she had know me forever. I was taken aback at her gesture. Have even had the chance to shoot a WB Match with her at the same range at a later date. She is one of the good persons to know. Yah - perhaps there should have been more written about the WB Match at Land Run. Just leaves a greater opportunity for others to step up and shine. J.J.

Hi Mr. Go West - This should answer your question: J.J.

Howdy Again All - Mr Garrison Joe - A great big WoW and Thank you for you response to my question. Your response was amazingly well written and should be a good reference to others. I will be quick to respond back that my knowledge with gunsmithing is dangerous at best and a Dremel has the potential of being a very expensive tool to use while working on guns. Last late winter while shooting the 2024 Wild Bunch Championship Match at Cowtown, the extractor in my Remington failed in the middle of the 42 shot handgun stage. I used my backup Remington for the remainder of the match. The broken extractor was replaced at EoT by a friend of ours from CA. It functioned just fine when used at the EoT WB Match. When I got back to Northern NV, the old extractor in my backup Remington was also replaced. While taking it to the range to test I noticed that the shells were being tossed in about a 25' radius. I then started to do some research on extractor tuning. The article I settled on was this one: http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2016/08/a-new-extractor.html Earlier this morning I read thorough all of the articles you posted links to and will study them again a number of times. Some great information in those articles for struggling gunwreckers like me. Interestingly enough the author of the article I mentioned, uses the same extractor tuning diagram that Bill Wilson (and the others you referenced) has in his article. It is now easy to see where Tony got his information from. After reading the Tony article, I purchased some micro files and then had to purchase another set of flat micro files along with a head thing that has about three sets of magnifying glasses on it. Off to the races (carefully) I went to filing the extractors on all three on my 1911's according to the diagram. They all toss the brass like they should with zero problems. Guess I am just a slow learner, however am able to learn with proper instruction. I will have to do some research/reading about this 'extractor twisting - Clocking' thing you mentioned. It looks like some intriguing research and learning. You also mention to "look for severe gouge in the extractor cut of the fired cases. A sharp or poorly shaped extractor hook will put a "horizontal gouge" in the angle part of the extractor cut." Yup - there is a definite extractor mark/nick on top of the bottom of the case and on the the side of the cases directly below the case dents. I attempted to get a picture of the extractor attach point, however even my iPhone 16 Pro camera could take a good enough picture to post. Later this week, we/he will have to so some 'careful filing' on the extractor on his gun. Thank you again for your help. You are a great reference person. So - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. J.J.