JJ

Hello Mr. Miller - As I read your short note here on this wire, can only wonder what has prompted this one liner? Is SASS WB ready to sent to the slaughter house and why the sense of urgency that now is the time for all of us WB shooters express our concerns to SASS through our TG’s? The bigger concern with your statement is why all the secrecy? There has to be a reason why this was generated. . . . . Why not place your best foot forward, spit out your reasons for this and dispense with the suspense?? J.J.

Mr. Moonshine - I dropped back into the WB Forum to see if anybody had furthered along this thread. I suspected that if anyone was to make any comments that it might be you. By the way, I do not consider that to be a bad thing. Before I get further along in this, I have to repeat a quote of a person that I met quite some time ago while shooting WB at some of the California State WB Matches at DDCT. This quote from him expresses my thoughts also: "I actually enjoy it more than CAS (I know - Sacrilege!)" Your response on the first read through reads well enough. The second time through I had some questions. Your first statement I can agree with completely. Your second sentence is where the questions start. You state: "there is a ton of conversations taking place almost on a daily basis regarding great ideas for WB". What are these conversations? Our TG has never mentioned anything these conversations? Another of your comments draws questions to my mind. You state: "WB is growing at an unprecedented rate". Where is the data to back this up? The first part of the sentence that contains the last statement also states this: "TG's and WBROC are all talking and there will be several topics at Land Run and again at EOT 2026." Interestingly enough our TG has not stated anything like this. Neither have the TG's, that I spoke to, in the areas we traveled to shoot WB Matches this year. With one exception (and one match only) I have not noticed any type of significant growth in WB. From April to August our travels were directed to matches that also held WB Matches. Not side matches, but real 10 stage WB Matches. Let me tell you what I learned. With that one exception most of the WB targets were further out than I have ever shot. The shooters at the top will always be at the top. It's from the middle of the pack to the bottom is where the discontent is. At award ceremonies, match directors ask the crowd if they had a good time at their match. The guys at the top of the heap are mostly quiet. You can catch an attitude that some of those enjoyed the match. Those that didn't are quiet. It's too bad that match directors can't be sitting in the back, anonymously, and listen to what others have to say about the targets further back than last year, procedurals are up because of ridiculous scenarios and this misses they all had. Then listen to them state they aren't coming back to this again. This didn't happen at just one of the matches. For my own self been to matches that had targets 63' back (correct figure, because a person in the posse before day 1 took out his 100' tape measure and measured the distance). Been to matches, this year, where out of a 17 man posse, the Day 1 had 15 procedurals. Day 2 brought only 12 on the same stage. Was at a match with misses like this: This is after the Top 5 shooters, 10, 5, 9, 12, 16, 31, 33, 23, 31, 7, 6, 35, 25, 27, 21, 30, 37, 25, 28, 43, 28, 24, 42, 57 and 34. Listening to those guys at the lower half of this match did not express much of an interest of coming back next year. Another of the matches I attended went something like this. Before Day 1 started, some of the club officers realized that targets had been sent waaaay to far out. They dragged all of the targets on the bays 3' in. At the end of Day 1, upon advice for some shooters, these same club officers dragged all of the targets further in by 10'. On day 2, the closest target was 18' back. Not a respectful distance for a WB Match for that one set of targets. The others were further back. I could go on much more. I think everyone that has made it this far has an understanding what I am attempting to get across. Of all the WB matches we attended this summer, there was not a single WB match that had a clean shooter. Neither did the 38/45 rifle issue seem to be an issue to most anyone. So where is this going? All this little person in the WB shooting community would like to see is some answers to statements above. By the way, the one exception to far out targets was a 10 stage match, where the targets were in even closer than I like to shoot WB. What those close in targets did was allow the fast shooters at the match (I was on a posse with some really, really fast 1911 shooters) to spray away. I learned that just like at the Tombstone Cowboy Match, no targets can be brought in close enough to where they will not be missed. There was not a single clean shooter at this match either. And No, I do not believe that WB should be dragged down to WB Shooting at close Cowboy targets. Where is the happy medium. A good match director, pared with a person who is experienced at setting WB stages, knows how to give their audience an enjoyable WB match experience. I'm not going to give up WB shooting. WB shooting is still is enjoyable. However, I m going to start voting, with our hard earned $'s, to attend matches that are enjoyable. Tired of spending thousands of $'s, traveling for days with hundreds of miles on the truck for hours and hours, the cost of fuel going up and not have an enjoyable time. There has to be a happy medium out there. Am also tired of listening to match directors state "this is a state/regional/national/world match. It's supposed to be challenging." My belief is a quote from the person who taught me how to shoot WB and coached me everywhere we met up. His statement was this: "Set a match so that the shooters out shoot the targets and not the targets out shoot the shooters." Kinda an encompassing statement when you think about it. This year in our travels, we met a whole gaggle of great new shooters to us. We look forward to seeing them on a range again. Perhaps all of those folks mentioned above that are in the know, can start to plan just a little differently to make matches just a little more enjoyable. Thanks for reading this probably somewhat boring saga and have a super weekend. J.J.

And where are the questions/results in this survey going? The survey was completed by April 2025. It took until July 2025 to see the results posted on this WB Wire. Why so long? Now, if I read this correctly, some here don't have a clear understanding of the questions after the fact and there isn't a clear understanding whether or not any of this will even be discussed at the Land Run Match because those in the know have not seen an agenda to find out if this survey will be discussed. I'm just a little guy within the SASS WB community with very little input. Reading these posts in this thread, to me, says the results of a very small group within the SASS WB community who took the time to respond to the survey will, in all probability, not see any rule changes (or perhaps any discussion) within my foreseeable future. What a shame. J. J.

Mr. JG Thank you for your answer. I read your response over a few times last night and again this morning. Ran out time yesterday for responses. Will follow your advise VERY closely. Ordered a set of diamond drilling devices for the rotary last evening to finish off this portion of gun project. The place the bits were ordered from say 'Delivery on Friday'. We'll see. Now thinking it is time to replace the factory barrel. It rubs hard on many places. Its the only thing left to replace on this gun. Again - thank you Respectfully - J.J.

Not so sure if this the right place to ask this question however here it goes. A number of months ago purchased a stock GI Rock Island 1911 45acp with the purpose of making it into a 'Modern Category Shootin' Iron'. Many months later I very close to getting this gun ready to use in a WB Match. I just one problem yet to solve and it relates to the title of this thread. I purchased a Wilson Combat Semi-Extended Slide Stop for this gun. It looked cool on their website. Did not know this at the time of ordering that part. This slide stop does not come with the little drilled dimple hole on the end of the slide stop. The slide stops on my Colt MK IV and two Remington R1's all have a dimple drilled into the ends of the slide stop. Well that's not totally a correct statement. The Colt MK IV has a little grove cut into the end of the slide stop. I believe what the dimples/grove purpose is for is to hold the slide stop in position while firing so that the slide does not prematurely slip up and lock the slide back until the magazine is empty. It's amazing what Mr. Google can answer when asked the question of why the Wilson Combat Semi-Extended Slide Stop does not have the little dimple. Its answer was that Wilson Combat does not believe the dimple is required if the plunger spring is strong enough to hold the Wilson Slide Stop into the correct position until the magazine is empty. Fast forward a few weeks after the frustration of the slide locking back prematurely on numerous occasions and then discovering the original RI plunger spring was a little shorter (worn out??) than the springs in my other 1911's. Wilson Combat new stainless steel plunger assemblies were ordered and installed. Today while testing new ammo loads, the darn slide locked back while bullets were still in the magazine. So much for the thought that new plunger assemblies would fix the problem . . . . . Well - to me there are three solutions: 1) Place the original Rock Island Slide Stop back into the gun. It has the little dimple drilled into it. 2) Order another cool looking extended slide stop release from a different company that has the dimple drilled on the stop. 3) Find a way to drill a little dimple in the end of the Wilson Combat Slide Stop without spending another $75 dollars for purchase and shipping of a different slide stop. Any solutions on how to drill this little dimple would be greatly appreciated. I did attempt to drill a dimple into the end of the Wilson Combat Slide Stop. As I thought would happen, the bit just danced all around the end of the slide stop without biting. I thought perhaps could use a spring loaded punch for a marker and then with a carbide bit just tap a little dimple in?? Will be free to admit, I am not a real 1911 mechanic. I know enough to be dangerous and (more importantly) to severely limit my use of dremels on guns. I enjoy the experience of learning new things and have had quite a bit of good advice from others on this forum. Any advice on how to correctly do this dimple thing would be appreciated. Much easier to ask for help than to spend another arm and leg on parts I have messed up. As another passing note about this project gun, am convinced when this project is finally completed probably could have purchased a new Kimber for less money :-). However, what would be the fun in that! J.J.

Hey All Thank you for the replies. Mr. Chapo - She caught it good. Almost like she was stomping crickets in the garage during the summertime. No possible way to fix. Mr. GJ - Thank you for answer. I did look at the website you referenced, previously, and noticed the set screws on the triggers you referenced were on the back without the threaded hole in the front. Plain and simple, I wasn't sure so thought it best to ask. Will order a trigger from Harrison shortly after I push the 'Submit Reply' tab. Thank you again with your responses. J.J.

Howdy all - So here goes the background. Today completely disassembled my Remington R1 for its semi-annual (??) cleaning. During the process of reassembly, my other half came out to talk to me. During the 'talk' the frame was turned down before the magazine release button was replaced. As the trigger dropped down to the ground bounced around a few times it was then stepped on the other half and really really bent. As I slowly stooped down to pick up the trigger and held it up for both of us to look at I said to her, "No worries. When we are done here will order another trigger." As I started to look for a traditional trigger, quickly determined this was not as easy of a project as I thought. All the websites Mr. Google came up with have many many triggers to choose from. However, most of those triggers displayed seemed to fit in a 'Modern' gun and were not suited for the 'Traditional' gun. I did manage to find a couple of short and long solid triggers. However those that I could find had a hole drilled for a set screw trigger adjustment. The latest edition of the WB Shooters Handbook has some information on what types of triggers that can be used. The following is the quote that I am centering on while attempting to order a new trigger: Short or long solid triggers are permitted. No flat or lightweight match triggers are allowed. I believe I understand what the 'flat or lightweight match triggers" designation references. What I don't understand is if I order a 'Short or long solid trigger' does the little hole at the bottom of the trigger somehow designate that trigger to now be an illegal trigger for a Traditional WB gun? If the set screw is removed and the little hole filled with (whatever) does it become a 'legal' traditional trigger? I suspect if i did this, no one would notice the difference. Just trying to this correctly. Or - if someone in this WB reading community can point me to a 'Traditional' trigger to order, that would save hassles in the long run. Thanks for reading and any help that others can provide. Respectfully - J.J.

What Marshal Stone said - This surprises you because?? I am thrilled that the young lady on the cover of the January 2025 Chronicle is a friend of mine. Met her (and her father) a number of years ago at a Minnesota State Cowboy Match. She sat down at the table I was sitting at (by myself) and proceeded to talk to me she had know me forever. I was taken aback at her gesture. Have even had the chance to shoot a WB Match with her at the same range at a later date. She is one of the good persons to know. Yah - perhaps there should have been more written about the WB Match at Land Run. Just leaves a greater opportunity for others to step up and shine. J.J.

Hi Mr. Go West - This should answer your question: J.J.

Howdy Again All - Mr Garrison Joe - A great big WoW and Thank you for you response to my question. Your response was amazingly well written and should be a good reference to others. I will be quick to respond back that my knowledge with gunsmithing is dangerous at best and a Dremel has the potential of being a very expensive tool to use while working on guns. Last late winter while shooting the 2024 Wild Bunch Championship Match at Cowtown, the extractor in my Remington failed in the middle of the 42 shot handgun stage. I used my backup Remington for the remainder of the match. The broken extractor was replaced at EoT by a friend of ours from CA. It functioned just fine when used at the EoT WB Match. When I got back to Northern NV, the old extractor in my backup Remington was also replaced. While taking it to the range to test I noticed that the shells were being tossed in about a 25' radius. I then started to do some research on extractor tuning. The article I settled on was this one: http://tonybrong.blogspot.com/2016/08/a-new-extractor.html Earlier this morning I read thorough all of the articles you posted links to and will study them again a number of times. Some great information in those articles for struggling gunwreckers like me. Interestingly enough the author of the article I mentioned, uses the same extractor tuning diagram that Bill Wilson (and the others you referenced) has in his article. It is now easy to see where Tony got his information from. After reading the Tony article, I purchased some micro files and then had to purchase another set of flat micro files along with a head thing that has about three sets of magnifying glasses on it. Off to the races (carefully) I went to filing the extractors on all three on my 1911's according to the diagram. They all toss the brass like they should with zero problems. Guess I am just a slow learner, however am able to learn with proper instruction. I will have to do some research/reading about this 'extractor twisting - Clocking' thing you mentioned. It looks like some intriguing research and learning. You also mention to "look for severe gouge in the extractor cut of the fired cases. A sharp or poorly shaped extractor hook will put a "horizontal gouge" in the angle part of the extractor cut." Yup - there is a definite extractor mark/nick on top of the bottom of the case and on the the side of the cases directly below the case dents. I attempted to get a picture of the extractor attach point, however even my iPhone 16 Pro camera could take a good enough picture to post. Later this week, we/he will have to so some 'careful filing' on the extractor on his gun. Thank you again for your help. You are a great reference person. So - Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all. J.J.

Hi All - Friend of mine just had his 1911 Colt Mark IV worked on. This gun was made in the early 70's and never fired but for a few times. Recently the Main Spring, Recoil Spring and Extractor were replaced. Replacement springs and extractor were Wilson Combat replacements. The extractor was a Wilson Combat 'Bulletproof' stainless extractor. Extractor was tuned using the Weigand 1911 Extractor Adjusting Tool and tested to the 25 - 27 ounce tension recommended on their web site videos with the Lyman Electronic Digital Trigger Pull Gauge. Two magazines of bullets were fired through the gun earlier this afternoon. Bullets used were loaded (mine) with Winchester LPP Primers, 4.5 grains of Bullseye and Bear Creak 200 RNHB Molly Coated Bullets. I have used this load for years on my own guns and have not seen anything like this. The brass was picked up, placed in my pocket and tossed on the counter when I got home. When I looked down at the brass I noticed that most of the shells were 'dented' on the rim and there was a horizontal scratching on the brass. My first thought was that this brass was just stepped on. Then quickly noticed a potential larger problem. Was kinda hoping that someone with a much greater knowledge in what might have caused this 'problem' and an idea how to fix might chime in and let us know. Whatever is going on with is gun needs to be addressed before a couple of thousand rounds are cranked out. Thanks all for looking and perhaps commenting. J.J.

I wish I could have some of my old computer skills back. I can not figure out how to easily copy (other than this) pictures from a web site. Oh well, another day for this issue. I liked the big white dot on the front of the 45 ACP slide that Boggus posted (thank you for taking the time and effort to post). The picture posted above is a picture of something I might be interested in. This picture is from the Kensight web page. If these are purchased I suspect the front and rear sights on the new gun will have to be milled to correctly fit these sights. Anyone have any experience with this type of sights and if so how did/do you like them??? J.J.

Hi All . . . . A couple of days ago a sporting goods store here had brand spankin' new 1911 45 ACP Rock Island Armory GI Standard Model guns listed for a price $299. Of course I had to purchase one of them. I shot WB Senior Traditional as much as is available to me. I have shot Traditional since the beginning. I thought this Rock Island gun would be a gun to place some different sights on the front and back and dude the rest of it up to putz around shooting Senior Modern at some of our local matches. I am fully aware that I can use my traditional Remingtons to shoot in the Modern Category. I thought this gun would be the perfect gun to place a set of sights with all those great big white (or other colors) dots,so that I could finally see the white doted front sight against black painted targets. I am also aware that the newly purchased sights, with the big white dots, may have to be fitted to the Rock Islands slide which will probably include some dove tailing (or??) to fit the sights I finally settle on. So here's my very open question (with a few comments before hand): As stated above, the only category I have ever shot in while shooting WB is the Traditional Categories with standard guns. The sights on traditional sights are pretty standard without much variation. I have absolutely no idea what sights any of you-all use (or prefer) that shoot Modern Categories. If anybody could list out your ideas, I would be more than excited to look and consider all suggestions. I am in no hurry to make this gun into something that will be fun to shoot. I just want to do something different for a change. Thanks for the help that any may offer. J.J.

How Close Should They Be? Hummm . . . What an interesting question. I believe the answer to be this: It depends on whom you are asking? Ask the persons who shot in the El Rey / La Reina categories at cowboy matches when they are lumped into the Modern or Traditional WB Categories at the State or higher level because there weren't five or more persons in their categories and the match director would not open up those Senior categories for whatever reason. Yup - been places where this has happened. Ask the persons who have shot stages where the scenarios are so complicated that 90% of the posse they are on received a Procedural. Ask those persons who have to struggle seeing rifle/pistol targets that are set at the back of distant berms where the front sight of the pistol is larger than the targets. And of all the places I have been shooting WB, very few clean the stages, no matter how the range is set. So am I advocating targets being set up close and personal. Not by any means. I know how I set WB targets when we had our range. Targets were 16"x"16' for squares and circles were 16" in diameter for our club. The pistol targets were set anywhere between 18' to 22'. Rifle targets at around 35', rifle/pistol targets at 25' and shotgun targets around 27'. I always used a tape measure. The Texas Stars, dueling trees, hostage/hostage taker targets were right at the 15' mark. These are just what I did and your mileage vary at your own clubs. I will make another observation . At State level Cowboy Match in the state where I live, the then President of the club made some remarks that went something like this: As he stood at the front of the audience he surveyed the trophies laid out to the front and sides of him. As he addressed the audience, he stated that statically about 10% of the audience would receive the those trophies. The other 90% of the audience were there to watch and see who were awarded those trophies. He went on to further say, those 10% of the audience receiving those trophies, would probably be in the top 10% no matter where they went. He state that he was writing stages, he struggled with who should he be writing a match for? Those top 10% who will continue to be in the top 10% no matter how challenging a match is or the 90% who will come back to support the club knowing that most will never have a chance at wining an award or ever seeing they names in the top 10% of whatever match they are attending. I believe that same challenge should be applied to any Cowboy or WB Match no matter what the level of the match is. Your audience will dictate what to write. No matter which group stages are being written for, attempt to make a challenge for everyone without writing stages that are only for the top 10%. In other words, everyone's organization is different. Do what works for you at your organization. When you travel and you don't care for the hosting clubs written stages let your pocket book do the talking. Thanks for reading - J.J. PS - Remember, all of those writing stages for any match, this is an entertainment business. Too hard, too close, too far away, too easy - well I'm sure you get the jest.

Garrison Joe - You were correct about my poor choice of words. You did not allude to anything. You provided, what I believe to be, was a distinct and correct answer. I can only apologize to you for my poor choice or words. J.J. PS - I really enjoy your answers to everything you provide on the SASS WB and Cowboy wires. Only wish I could get the opportunity to know you on a personal level. I believe you are one of the many great resources on these wires.