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Why use either #4 or #6?

If it was up to me, we'd run a hot range all the time and that wouldn't make me uncomfortable at all. Rules are rules, and if there was a violation of the rules, a penalty should apply. But pretending like we are doing anything to increase safety by dinging the guy for what we saw here isn't adding anything.

OK, using that logic, why use any time at all to make sure it is CLEAR, at the end of the stage?

What's the safety issue? If it left his hand loaded it's a SDQ anyway. Are we really that worried about an empty gun?

Yes

It's the RO's job to call any penalties, like a SDQ. It's the spotters' job to call hits and misses. They can point out a POSSIBLE penalty, but RO has to call it. Unless it's a situation where an immediate Cease Fire needs to be called, like a person down range.

That is my point, should safety issues be considered of higher importance than "if you think it is a miss then it is a hit"

It looks it didn't break 180 but awful damn close, maybe 175! It was blocked and recovered too quick to be positive and doubtful spotters would have seen it. RO would have to make the call and it appears that benefit of doubt went to the shooter.

Hijack--- There maybe a discussion here. Hit-Miss? Benefit-of-the-doubt does and should go to the shooter. What about safety issues? IMHO, what the shooter did was NOT safe. I was unable to hear if the TO made a call regarding the pistol. It appears the shooter grabbed the pistol preventing further discussion. Making a joke of the issue. Which is a problem. Potentially Spirit of the Game. Assuming the 170 was determined to be a "no call", SDQ for unsafe gun handling.

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If there's any in the top 10 with 150 pf rifles, the entire argument is over. That said, I'll see this year. I don't have a big rifle so I'll be shooting my .38.

The real question ought to be who is using #4 at a CAS match? That is unnecessary for sure. Maybe it was written in the lead era and people wanted to use their duck ammo?

Howdy Sailor, the WBROC has discussed this issue and are working to clarify it CM

I've been running 4.3 gr. of VV N320 with a 230 gr. Desperado Cowboy bullet. Won 2 Senior Traditional World Championships with it. One with an SR 1911 and one with a Colt. Must be doing something right. Marshal Stone

Pistol was initially restaged properly but was hit by the rifle when it was discarded changing it resting place. Hard to tell from the video if it broke the 170. Those with eyes on the pistol should make the call. As the shooter stated where's the protractor to determine if the 170 was broken. Marshal Stone

What was the basis for that call?

You have to be on the firing line to determine "breaking the 170." Looking at a video is NOT the way to judge it. I'll trust the eye witnesses who were right there. good luck, GJ

The pistol flipped over (didn't rotate) and it doesn't look like it's breaking the 170°. It's close but I personally don't think it is....

MSV was called. There was discussion on how the pistol got into the position. Should be SDQ. As for the finger at the start. I had it pinned to the top front side of the trigger guard where it meets the frame. Totes

There is no rule about keeping the trigger finger off the trigger when initially charging the pistol. The only finger rule is; when changing mags, moving, correcting malfunctions. WBAS SHB Pg 14 "When handling the 1911, the shooter’s trigger finger must be outside the trigger guard when moving, reloading, or clearing a malfunction after the pistol is first charged." No call on the trigger finger. SDQ on the 1911 after the rifle smacked it, though.

I couldn't discern the trigger finger. But agree with SDQ for breaking the 170 with the pistol. What was the actual call?

I couldn't tell if the finger was in the trigger guard at the start or along side the frame...as at the second position. I shoot traditional...and sometimes get yelled at for finger...but what I am doing is hitting the mag release

Broke the 170, SDQ Hard to see at the start, what about the finger on the trigger while racking the slide?

Scenario is irrelevant. Watch the pistol when the rifle is discarded. WTC? WB_WTC.MP4