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Separate is great if it's my state. Separate not so good if I have to travel. Either way, "Wild Bunch is not a side match"

It just needs to be kept separate.

I struggle with the same thing. Having it on Tuesday is hard. Thursday/Friday would be great.

Thanks Garrison much appreciated. We hadn't seen Alliant Red Dot for many many years down here, then all of a sudden nearly every gun shop in Oz had these big 4kg canisters of it, of course after such a long powder drought it flew off the shelves.

The problem with having them at the same time is the Main Match is usually put on Thursday and Friday and the cowboy side match is Saturday and Sunday. When I held the WB state match as a stand alone event, we grew over 25% a year for five years even during the chicom pandemic. When the main match is held during the week, it’s hard for people who work to make it.

I think we need to take the equal standing seriously if we want this to happen. "Wild Bunch is not a side match" needs to become our phrase. I also think there should be a push for the Wild Bunch and Cowboy Action Shooting state matches to be at the same location and done during the same event. Make it known that we won't be ignored and the recognition will come.

SHB Pg 19, top of page. Handling Conventions - Shotguns - In Wild Bunch Action Shooting, side by side/double barrel shotguns are loaded under TO supervision at the staging location and staged open. The action may not close until “after the beep.” Any additional rounds needed must be loaded from the body or other specified staging position. If vertical staging is used, the double/side by side will have to be staged empty. It's allowed at the Start of the Stage, not any other time during the stage.

Click on the flyer link in the first post. Only thing not there is the round count. As for round count, I always estimate 30 rounds, pistol, per stage. Some higher, some lower, but that's a good number. Rifle I figure 10. Shotgun 6. If I bring ammo back, that's ok.

What does the average roundcount per stage look like? Are the sidematches on Saturday? Long range sidematches?

Wouldn't picking it up and putting two shells in the chamber on the clock and setting it back down violate bullet 1 and/or 2? I learned of this oddity when we had this scenario occur during the WB sidematch at PoP last year, with you running the timer.

In Quickload, 3.9 grains @ 1.255" length with a 228 grain Lee bullet RN gets you 158 pf @ 10,696 psi. Bumping that to the 4.5 grain start load gets 182 pf @ 15,082 psi. All out of a 5" barrel. Quickload has the PF a little higher than predicted by the data you posted, but it's pretty close. I just got some Clean Shot and I may try it in .45 ACP the next time I load for WB. I'd have to reduce my Clays load to ~3 grains to get similar performance to 3.9 grains of Clean Shot, which probably wouldn't cycle very well. Maybe Clean Shot is as great as people say it is! I have 5 pounds to try.

Link to Lovex D032 https://explosia.cz/app/uploads/2016/11/reloading_Lovex_EN.pdf Link to Shooters World Clean Shot https://shootersworldpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Clean-Shot-Load-Data-Pistol.pdf Looking at the data for D032 / Clean shot it will work for 45 ACP although the starting load is a little hot for WB ( PF of about 180 )

I use VV N320 Have won 2 World Senior Traditional Championships with it. Marshal Stone

I'm still on the fence but I'd really like to join you all.

N310 would be the common choice for .45 although there are slower powders that would work if needed.

Buckshot - I know that the Red Dot you have a stock of would work REAL well for you. It was not on my list because here in the US, Alliant has not released any to the marketplace for 18 months or so now. Same reason my list did not include Clays - has been impossible to find ever since Ukraine was invaded. And, if you have a newly-made ADI powder that is a Clays replacement, that would work well too. GJ

I use WST. I know a lot of shooters use VV but I don't know which, and, that decision should be up to the shooter.

My apologies, how remiss was I not listing the powders that I do have on hand 😞 Red Dot - Brand new huge 4kg containers of fresh powder just imported Vitivhouri N320 - also a lot of it Vectan AO Trailboss - Newly made 2 x 1.5kg jugs Lovex DO32 - a lot of this as well ADI APS 350 which I think is 'Clays' its the new ADI powder that is replacing ADI AS30n I know that seems like a lot, but I load for eight (8) of my family and we all shoot a LOT and I didn't want to ever get down to that bare a cupboard again! I'm glad ADI is working overtime and getting powder out to Aussie reloaders again (and shipping O'seas as well) and when I see it I will buy it, but I'd like to work my way through those European powders that I have a lot of. WST has been a GREAT powder in our Ruger SR1911's unfortunately Winchester Australia hasn't yet brought back any Winchester powders and don't seem keen to .....yet.

If you are going to cite the VV powder company, then to be useful to the shooter, you should say WHICH of the several VV powders you see being used for WB. GJ

Vitivhouri is being used by a lot of shooters in the States

Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Shotguns A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only (some conditions may be corrected before firing the next firearm): - Empty. - No live round in the chamber, action cycled, and muzzle safely downrange. - Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (restaged for further use) - Action open. Believe this answers that question. As long as the action is open, the shotgun is safe to leave the shooters hands, whether there are rounds in the chamber or not.

Unless it's been updated, the more quirky part is that while it can be staged with shells under TO supervision, if the shooter did not load it before the stage begins and starts. Then the shooter picks up the SG, loads two, realizes they grabbed the wrong firearm and sets down the SG open with two loaded it gets treated as setting down a loaded firearm.

Clays if you have it available there? I think it feels softer than WST but some will argue the other way. Shot 1000’s and 1000’s of 230 gr bullets on top of 3.9 of clays for USPSA. I would guess 3.4-3.6 would make a nice Wild Bunch load. Clays has not been available here for a couple years so I switched to WST. LF.

I'm not sure what availability of powders in Australia looks like right now, but to answer this with a US-suitable reply, I'd have to say TiteGroup (aka High Gun). A good replacement for both pistol cartridge and shotgun, but slightly louder report and can be slightly dirty at low pressure. Followed up with 700-X,Trail Boss, Bullseye, Solo 1000 and Winchester Super Handicap (won't be much data for these last two). If you have to drop to slower powders, then Unique or Win 231. We are not seeing any Alliant pistol/shotgun powders in our marketplace in US. good luck, GJ

There's a lot of fast powders available in Australia again, unfortunately my WB .45acp powder WST is not one of them What brand/powder is close to WST?