Abe E.S. Corpus Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 My club discontinued WBAS but another club in my area is going to offer matches in 2016 so I am starting to hear more "is this legal for Wild Bunch" questions. This one came from a local shooter earlier this week: is the Llama .45 a "1911 type" pistol? There is one for sale locally. My search suggested that most parts will not interchange with 1911 parts but the Llama will usually accept (how comforting) a 1911 magazine. From the photos I gather that the pistol has the same functional parts as a 1911, including a grip safety. It has an external extractor but so do a couple of other brands that seem to be accepted as 1911 style pistols. It does appear to have a low rib atop the slide, but if it is integral and not "attached" it arguably is not covered by the prohibition. I already expressed my opinion to the shooter about quality and parts availability. Legal for WBAS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. John Campbell Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 The top rib on the slide is what makes it prohibited for WBAS matches. The only pistols with this feature that are authorized are the Colt Gold Cup Series 1911's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 IMHO, it is likely the Llama's slide rib will be ok,as the Gold Cup is cited in the rules as an example of a rib manufactured into the top of the slide, rather than attached later as a target sight device. The rule literally is: No external “rib” allowed on top of slide. This means no external rib such as a BoMar may be attached to the top of the slide by screws, welding, or any other means. That Llama rib was machined in when slide was made. Not attached. But, some Spanish made copies do not have a grip safety. A functional grip safety not being present would certainly be a "killer" for complying with WB rules, either category. Shooting the gun in Modern category opens the rules requirements up considerably. Make sure he reads over all the rules in the WB shooter's handbook. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. John Campbell Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Directly from the latest WBAS Shooter's Handbook: " No external “rib” allowed on top of slide. This means no external rib such as a BoMar may be attached to the top of the slide by screws, welding, or any other means. The top of the slide may be flattened, serrated, and/or matted to reduce glare. Original Colt Gold Cup ribs are legal. " Don't try to interpret the rules, the rules are pretty set forward, and they even go so far as to address interpreting the rules: " In each of the respective sections, allowed modifications are listed. Just because a manufacturer designs a part or firearm for this sport or just because a firearm was available, does not necessarily mean it is legal for competition. Only the modifications referenced here as allowed are approved. All others are illegal. " Hence, " Original Colt Gold Cup ribs are legal. " means exactly that, only original Colt Gold Cup ribs are legal for WBAS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Sorry, but I believe you are the one who is interpreting the rules to be exclusive instead of meaning what they say, IMHO. The word ONLY appears nowhere in that section. You have added it when you wrote about the rule. Please stick to the rules. The factory-machined low rib is not a modification. It was manufactured that way. The rib was not attached. The rules prohibit an "attached external" rib. Really pretty clear. Good luck, GJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Gentlemen, I believe you're both right and you're both wrong. I don't have my rule notes handy but I believe the reason the Llama isn't legal is that it is a vented rib. The Colt rib is not. That is not 100% clear in the current published rule book. I will try to reach out to Happy Jack who does not have much internet access while he is at the convention. As has also been stated, most Llamas also are not true 1911 pistols, with the same function grip safeties. Basically, to answer the original poster's question, only 1911/1911A1 style pistols and copies are allowed. Llamas are not true copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. John Campbell Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Also of note on the Llama pistol, there is a flair at the bottom of the magazine well, not found on the 1911. Also, the front of the slide is nor scalloped, like a 1911. Remember, in Modern Class, the pistol with magazine inserted can weigh no more than 42 oz. These areas of extra steel found on the Llama pistols will add weight, and will likely put the pistol over the weight limit. http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y36/cmr314/754591_02_llama_1911_45_acp_640_zps318tc0ca.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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