Doc Holloman

Looking at the Pro Steel rules, not sure they would work for us.  We have no berms.  between stages, and therefore have no dropping or knockdown targets that can't be reset by pulling a rope  Anyone going forward of the firing line requires shutting all the posses down.

 

On another note, I put a question on the SASS Facebook page asking if other clubs were having PCC shoots and the page monitor posted a response telling me to look elsewhere, and then locked responses.

 

Dusty, we have been allowing .22s on both Cowboy and Wild Bunch since Spring.  A few of the Cowboy shooters use them.  Those of us with .22 1911s probably don't have 5 mags for them ( I have 4 for mine).  No one much complains about shotgun ammo for WB.  We generally shoot about the same number as the Cowboy shooters (20+), and actually shoot fewer rifle than the Cowboys.

 

The new Club President is willing to let me design the stages, and I can limit 3 of them to 3 mags with one big stage of 4 or 5.  We historically have had one stage with no shotgun and one with no rifle, so that would not be a change.

 

I willgive some thought to allowing the sub .40 rifles, although a lot of our cowboy shooters shoot .44 or .45  ( I shoot .38-40, but I'm an eccentric. ) and those who shoot the slicked up .38s like it was full auto would not be interested in WB ( they are the guys who think 10 yards  is much too far for rifle targets.)

 

The biggest complaints I hear ( besides the ammo / primer and powder shortage) are too many misses (target distance) and too many Ps ( complicated scenarios).  And we have serious difference of opinion on both those subjects.

Following on to my earlier posting, I am interested in any suggestions on how increase interest in WB shooting, either within the existing club membership, or by attracting new shooters.  Our club is the only club in the area that has offered Wild Bunch on a regular basis (a couple allow Cowboy 1911) and it is on life support.  A few weekends we have only had 3-4 WB shooters in a club that prefers posses of 15 or more.  The prevailing opinion on  the b clug board is that if we cant increase the interest in WB, we will basically shut it down or limit it to an occasional twice a year off weekend match.

 

Admittedly this was an off year across the board with COVID, ammunition/component shortages.  Only a couple of new members in the club and more attrition than that.  And Wild Bunch ammo expenditure and lost brass is higher than for folks shooting CAS.  We can reduce the number of rounds per stage (we currently shoot 4-5 mags per stage -- we can drop that to 3-4),  simplify the stage instructions to reduce the number of Ps, and shorten the distances to generate more clean stages/matches.  But at what point do we lose the essence of WB? 

 

I've thought of making changes to make WB more interesting and less repetitious.    I've though of throwing in an optional Fastest 1911/Fastest shotgun side match between the 2nd and 3rd  stages (after folks are warmed up but before they get tired.)  I've considered adding Doughboy and/or Teddy Roosevelt as categories during the stages.

 

I'm open to other ideas, suggestions. 

Well, I have a PCC (CZ EVO Skorpion) but I don't have a handgun (or holster) that would qualify.  There is enough hostility to Wild Bunch in my club that I doubt I could get them interested in Pro Steel.  Never even heard of it before you mentioned it.

 

Don't know of any local CAS clubs doing any sort of PCC.  Closest would be about 5 hours away.

Dusty, thanks for the idea.  That might be an option.  I will run it up the proverbial flagpole.

What model Krag is it.  The vast majority of Carbines were model 1896 or 1899.  Only a comparative handful of 1898 carbines were made.  If it was 1899, then it is definitely a carbine as there were no model 1899 rifles.  https://gun-data.com/krag_rifles_carbines.html

  How will you load the sgs? I like the option to use my 1911 monthly. Best of both worlds.

 

Shotgun is an open item (at least how they pitched it o to me as I am on the cub board (or will be come January 1.)  I doubt they will allow trench guns or model 12s (which are what I shoot).  Probably will limit shotgun to 4 targets, but whether they will allow the1897 shooters to load 4 is open to debate (my guess not, and single loading shotguns is one of the things I am not fond of in Cowboy shooting..) 

 

One of my concerns is that  the Cowboy 1911 will not be decent practice for the state Wild Bunch match. Also, I  prefer the quasi military orientation of WB (most of our WB shooters are retired officers,  like me.)  The cowboy side is just a pure speed match, with  frankly no atmosphere.

We generally only shoot four stages on Sundays.  The Cowboy shooters shoot 5 both days.

 

Usually we shoot 4 or 5 7-shot mags per stage, so 126 .45ACP.  We shoot shotgun on 3 out of the 4 stages so 18 12 ga. and we generally shoot rifle on 3 stages, with one of those being seven shots rather than 10, so 27 rifle.  126 + 27 + 18 = 174 rounds.  We recently hosted the state WB match and we shot 10 stages.  Same basic round counts per stage. 

 

But I get your point.

 

 

We generally have 2-3 cowboy posses on Saturday, an 2 cowboy any 1 WB posses on Sundays.  WB interest has been off this year.  Lot of reasons: ammo (28-35 .45acp per stage), COVID.  Some folks complain that WB targets are too far out and this we rarely have clean matches.  Plus the general Cowboy shooter hostility to WB.

 

Our ranch has 16 stages, plus a long range stage, so we have plenty of room and targets.  We have a work day on the Tuesday before match weekends where we generally have about a dozen people.The biggest complaints I hear are the extra work needed to set up WB stages, and that WB posses move too slowly.

 

Frankly the Cowboy shooting doesn't excite me.  Repeated 3 target Nevada sweeps at 3-4 yards are just boring.

My club  has been the only one in the area that shoots Wild Bunch on a monthly basis ( on Sundays, we shoot Cowboy on both Saturday and Sunday).  Now our new Club board wants to limit WB to two " 5th Saturdays" per year and let the WB shooters shoot " Cowboy 1911" with the Cowboy stages.  I don't personally find that an acceptable solution.  Thoughts?

OK.  I admit I must have imagined it. 

 

I recall reading that while the Model 12 is legal, the Model 12 Trench Gun is not (reason being that the Model 12 Trench Gun is a WWII gun).  But right now I cannot find that in the rules.  Am I imagining this? 

Update, there will be 3 stages that will be 8 shotgun.  Shells over the capacity of you gun may be loaded from the body or staged.

For those planning to attend:  Shotgun strings in stages will probably all be 6 rounds (so if your 97 or 12 is set up for 5 rounds in the mag, you might want to switch out the spring and follower.)  Stages will be either four or five  7-round magazines for the 1911 and either 7 or 10 for the lever gun.   

 

Last man standing  will be shot with two mags, the first with 5 rounds and the second with 7.  Six targets- all to be hit.

Dusty:. Will "Modern" 1911s be legal for any of the matches?

Looking forward to it.  You have me looking for a good cast load for my Inglis Hi Power.

It took me a while, but I worked out the bugs in getting successful loads for my grand and carbine. Using the bullet recommended above, and a load in the mid range with 3031 for the Lyman 170 gr cast bullet, I get reliable cycling in my 1943 SA Garand. Not so good results with 2400.  I load to an overall length of 3.03.

 

 

For my Saginaw Carbine, using a 110 grain coated bullet, I use the low end loads Lyman recommends for their 113gr cast bullet with h Unique.  Works fine.  OAL 1.680.

 

Of course what works on your rifles may vary.

Time is running short if you are considering attending.  We started setting up so e of the stages and side matches today.  We have an very fast, 1911-only,  Last Man Standing match planned!

 

Also, Still a chance to shoot with the Texican Rangers this coming weekend and practice at the site ( if not the exact stages) .  We shoot Wild Bunch on Sunday.

Tested loads for GAMM  and BAMM this morning.  Closing in on what works best.    Have decided to use my USMC 1903 for the Doughboy side match.  I flip up the rear sight and use the triangle at the bottom.  Makes acquiring the target a lot quicker  than the 03A3.  Will still use the 03A3 for BAMM.

 

Space is still available so everyone get your applications in!

May be a dumb question but are the 1903 front sight hoods, usually found on USN, USMC, and National Match rifles OK?

This Weekend's Texican Rangers matches, including the Sunday Wild Bunch match, have been cancelled due to weather and the field conditions. Another Wild Bunch match is scheduled for July 31.

Just a shameless plug:. Anyone wanting to get in a little extra practice under match conditions before the Texas State Championships, the Texican Rangers will have Wild Bunch matches on July 11, July 31, and August 15.  Come shoot on the same range as States.

 

 

My Lee  bulge buster  arrived today and I was excited to start churning out a bunch of .45acp.  Unfortunately, it took about 30 seconds reading the instructions to learn that it has to be used with the Lee Factory Crimp die.  None seem to be in stock anywhere.  Does anyone have one the don't need? 

Flat.  I have short fingers so anything that makes the grip smaller.