Doc Holloman

The Tejas Caballeros will be hosting a Wild Bunch Range Officer Class at the 'Cabs' home range near Blanco, Texas at 9:30 AM on Sunday, April 28.   Wild Bunch shooters from any club are welcome. The cost of the class is $25 for initial qualification and $15 for refresher.  While refreshers are not required  (except every two years for Wild Bunch Territorial Governors), they are encouraged every 2-3 years. 

(Note:  the Wild Bunch Range Officer class that was previously scheduled for April 10 by our sister club, the Texican Rangers, has been cancelled due to the instructor having a family conflict.)

Shooters planning to attend are encouraged to register with Doc Holloman,  the Cabs Wild Bunch Range Officer at docholloman56@gmail.com so we will know how many student handouts to prepare.  

The Tejas Caballeros "Determination, Texas" shooting facility is located at

8545 Ranch Road 1623
Blanco, Tx 78606

7.6 miles west of the old Blanco courthouse at (4th Street becomes FM 1623.) The Gate is marked with SASS signs and is on the left if you are coming from Blanco.    For more info, contact Doc Holloman at the email above.   

The Course is several hours so plan to bring your lunch.  

On 3/1/2024 at 11:41 AM, Eyesa said:

Thanks Doc, I see it now! The old eyes musta zipped right over it!

happens to  me a lot

Look on page 12 under Common Parameters: " - Standard length magazine release only- it may not be extended or oversized."

This used to be the rule only for Traditional.   For Modern, extended (but not Oversized) was OK.

1 hour ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

Stand by for clarifications. Contact your WBTG to get the changes you want started.

 

OK.  Tried to have it raised  in the  TG meeting last night but it was reported back to me that  because the WB TGs are organized yet, they weren't discussing any rule changes.  Our TG could not make it to EOT.  I sent the issue through the CAS TG and the WB TG from another club.  

A number of clubs haven't even selected a WB TG yet.

I will have our TG try to raise it.  In the meantime I will be shooting a State Match in 3 weeks with illegal pistols.

But again, why this change?  I do not recall it being mentioned in any of the announcements or discussion of the Wild Bunch changes.  I only became aware of it because someone mentioned it on Facebook a couple of days ago, and I run our club's Wild Bunch program. 

The  recent rule release has the following regarding mag releases under "common parameters" (i.e., applying to both traditional and modern guns) :   - Standard length magazine release only- it may not be extended or oversized.

This is a change (and a very unwelcome one for "modern" shooters, as extended (but not oversized mag releases had previously been allowed in the Modern category).  What gives?  Why the change?  I thought the idea was to make Wild Bunch more open and inclusive?  Do I need to go out and buy new standard length mag releases for my 3 match 1911s ro be legal again (and then not be able to reach the mag release with my short thumbs without completely changing my grip)? Is it possible this was a mistake in the  new handbook? 

Are we going to ban the beavertail safeties next?

Thanks for the update.  

Doc

Is there an update to the Range Officer Guide coming out soon?  Our club is having an RO class the end of April (we desperately need a couple of additional ROs and I need a refresh.)  It appears the "old" version of the RO Guide can no longer be accessed on the SASS Website.

Thanks, Misty for the update.

The longstanding rule says slings are not allowed on Main Match rifles.    However as Doughboy was not a Main Match before this year, it was a reasonable interpretation that issue slings were allowed on the BAMM-style rifles in the Doughboy side match (as well as in the BAMM match).  Now that Doughboy is a main match category, was the intent that issue slings are no longer allowed?  

Never mind, the new Rules are out!   https://www.sassnet.com/the-shooting/cowboy-action-shooting/handbooks-rules

Anyone know the answer to this:  Will the new rules list Teddy Roosevelt and Doughboy as regular Wild Bunch categories?  Misty's announcement appears to say that, but a posting about EOT could be read to mean that has been changed.

Tejas Caballeros Next Wild Bunch Match is Sat Feb 3. 5 regular stages plus a Doughboy/Teddy Roosevelt side match.

On 1/14/2024 at 2:40 PM, PeeWee 15785 said:

Open category will be outlined in the WBAS Shooters Handbook and RO guide for reference and will allow any single stack
1911 (No PF), any SASS legal rifle in .32 caliber or larger, and any SASS legal shotgun

 

Does this mean the short barreled 1911's is OK?

16 and 20 gage?

.32 H7R MAG IN A RIFLE?

I know everyone is talking about the .38 but doing an Open category may let me play a little longer.

Yes, but.  Open category is only sanctioned for local matches.   But within that, commanders and officer models are good, as are 9mms .40s 10mms, and .38 Supers.  

Within traditional and Modern categories, the 1911 rules appear to be unchanged.  Any SASS legal shotgun is OK, so 20 and 16 gauge are allowed (had my eye on a used 20 gauge Model 12 the other day.  HMMMM) .  Your .32  rifle should be OK.   I'm guessing that with the opening up of the rifles allowed, that "rifle not last" will become the rule. 

Maybe this will be clarified when the new Wild Bunch rule book comes out.  The existing rules are silent on this point:  If shooting a match in the Doughboy or  Doughboy or TR categories, are both Traditional and Modern 1911s allowed (both in terms of the guns themselves and in terms of shooting style?)  I would hope it is shooters choice.  

Update on .38 rifles for Wild Bunch.  Will it require “Rifle not last?”.   I had planned to test my .38 rifle  against shot timer after today’s Tejas Caballeros Cowboy match, but circumstances made it unnecessary. 

I ended up as a TO for our posse and was able to observe whether the timer was picking up .38 Special rifle shots over several stages.  In  short, the answer is “sometimes.”  Interestingly, while the load being used was important, and to a lesser degree, whether the stage was open or enclosed was a factor, perhaps just as important was barrel length.   Two shooters back to back on the same semi-enclosed stage, the first shooting 105 grain oner 2.5 gr of Trailboss, the other shooting 158gr over 5gr of Trailboss.  Most, but not all of the first shooters shots were picked up.  But, counter intuitively, the second shooter’s shots, with the heavier load, were not picked up at all. The big difference  appears to be barrel length.  The first shooter was using a 73 with a 20 inch barrel, while the second was shooting a Marlin with a 24 inch barrel.  As another data point, I was shooting 147 gr over 2.6gr of Titegroup, using my 73 with a 19 inch barrel and the other TO said the timer picked up all of my shots.

I was taking care to hold the timer at shoulder height, as close to the shooter as I could without crowding him. 

Bottom line, the timer would not reliably and consistently pick up the .38 rifle shots, even with heavy loads.

16 hours ago, wyliefox said:

IMHO, rifle not last is an indication that the TO needs replacing.

TO's do your job!!!  hold the timer to pick-up the rounds.

Our club has a few shooters that use 38SPL mouse-farts in rifle (including me).  By holding the timer correctly they are ALL recorded.

I have seen many TO's holding the timer low and away from the shooter.  Really!!  Yeah, mouse-farts will NOT be recorded.

Well, this weekend I will test it after our club cowboy match.  I will be shooting lightly loaded 125/147/158gr loads at both enclosed and open stages to see if out timers pick them up.  (I don't have any 105gr bullets, but the 125s are laded pretty light -- 2.5gr of Titegroup.)  

Somehow I don't think that 177/180gr rule is going to end up being applied to .38s.  Don't know anyone that loads bullets  that heavy.

I think my biggest gripe with the rule changes  is that it might eventually lead to "rifle not last" in Wild Bunch.

Beginning Saturday, June 3, the Tejas Caballeros will be holding its inaugural  first Saturday monthly 5 stage Wild Bunch match!  This will currently be the only monthly Wild Bunch match in the Central Texas area.  Matches will be held at the Caballeros' first class  "Determination Ranch"  facility, located just west of Blanco, Texas, about a half hour north of San Antonio.  Gate opens at 7:45 with shooters meeting and safety briefing starting at 8:30.  Hammers down at 9:00.  

Doc sends.

Just a data point.  After trial and error I have found that a 17 pound spring works best in the Springfield Garrison that I shoot for WB, with my loads. Your gun, your loads then your mileage may vary.

I recently picked up an old Model 12 at the local gun store.  As both of my other 12s were broke I figured I could use the backup and the price was unbeatable (I could easily part it out for a lot more.)

Problem is the gun is STIFF.  It requires much more effort to cycle the action than either of my other 12s or either of my 97s.  I'm not referring to an action slide lock problem, but the actual  amount of physical effort required to pull the slide back and push it forward.

I had  my local gunsmith clean it when I bought it, but how well he knows 12s is an open question.

Any suggestions on loosening this old warrior up?

2 hours ago, Garrison Joe said:

 

Using the term "split shotgun targets" in the scenario does not clearly define HOW the shooter will have to shoot, IMHO.   Targets do not have to be split into two physical locations to cause a "split target sequence".   Split means that there is more than one sequence for a given gun.  Changing gun type is what causes a split.  Not changing shooting position.   Left and right placed targets, if shot by shotgun continuously (not changing gun types), still is all one shooting sequence (is not a split sequence).

In my opinion, a stage description should NOT use "split SG targets" - it has uncertain meaning.  Did the stage as written use "split" anywhere in it? If it did, please quote what the stage description said.

Doc replies: I haven't seen the stage description.  I have seen the target layout at our club workday on Tuesday.  I don't think I have ever seen the term "Split Shotgun Targets" used in our club stage scenarios.  Usually they simply say engage the shotgun targets in any order.  About half the stages will give the shooter the choice of firearms order.  Others will simply dictate which gun to start with ( almost never shotgun) 

Thanks for the clarification.    So I should  interpret the rule about safe to leave the shooters hand ( "restaged for future use") as meaning with NO shells in the Mag tube.

 

When a stage has split shotgun targets, when can you move with the shotgun stoked?   As an example, the stage has 6 shotgun targets, two at the right side shooting position, and 4 at the left side position.  Rifle and pistol targets are at  the middle shooting position.  Order of targets is shooters choice.  Shooter loads the shotgun with six rounds.  At the buzzer, he engages the  two right hand   targets  from the right hand position, and then safely moves to the left hand position to engage the 4 remaining targets, before stowing the shotgun and moving on to the pistol and rifle targets.

Sounds pretty basic to me and that is how I have seen this situation  run many times.   So what's the issue.?  Well, a club member who is a long time WB shooter and RO pointed out the language in the WB Shooting Handbook that reads: " •Shotgun magazines may be loaded with the number of rounds required for the initial target sequence. Any additional rounds needed must be loaded from the body or other specified staging position."      

 Issue revolves around the phrase "initial target sequence".  How does that language apply to split shotgun targets?  Should the shooter have only loaded two at the loading table and then loaded the remaining four on the clock?  Or do all six shotgun targets constitute the "initial target sequence", in which case loading six was legal.   And would it have made a difference if the shooter had engaged the pistol and rifle targets in between the two groups of shotgun targets (safely staging the shotgun in accordance with the rules "Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended round, action closed (restaged for further use)."

If the first interpretation is correct (reload four on the clock) than I am not sure I would see the applicability of the shotgun movement rule:

"• Safe for movement shotgun in hand only

– Action open, round on carrier.

– Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed.

Maybe I am reading too much into this , but I know we have a split shotgun stage coming up at a match this weekend, and would love an "expert" interpretation. 

Doc sends. 

Subject line pretty much says it -- should we expect any new rule changes coming out this year?

I went the Pershing Expedition route. 

I keep mine on the left but in a single mag pouch with a snap flap, to keep it from getting mixed up with my loaded mags on open top pouches.