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Follow up .30-06 loading question


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OK, I am finally getting set up  and find, reading the RCBS loading die instructions, that for loading cast bullets, I need to buy/use a Neck Expander Die.  RCBS sells these but I am not sure what size to get.  My 170gr Quality Cast GCSIL bullets  are sized at .310.  Should I go with .310 for the neck expander or .311? 

 

Doc sends.

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I'd get the Lyman M die!  Special cast bullet expander die.  Get the 30 cal size, and you can adjust to get the amount mouth belling you want, and the neck expanding diameter is right for 30 cal cast bullets.  Then you have a die that will expand necks for 30-40 or 30-06 or 30-30 or any other 30 cal cartridge!  Very flexible and adjustable.

 

good luck, GJ

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I don’t really crimp my ‘06 and 30-40 ammo. I do crimp my 45colt lead loads for tubular mag rifles. You really need a good crimp for levergun pistol ammo to prevent bullet setback from recoil and mag spring pressure. A rifle bullet is only affected by the rifle recoil. I load 193 gr gc loads for my club’s BAM shoots. I load them so the recoil is mild and I can stay on target to work the gun faster. You don’t need hot loads to clang steel. I need to set up my chrono one of these days.
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I don’t really crimp my ‘06 and 30-40 ammo. I do crimp my 45colt lead loads for tubular mag rifles. You really need a good crimp for levergun pistol ammo to prevent bullet setback from recoil and mag spring pressure. A rifle bullet is only affected by the rifle recoil. I load 193 gr gc loads for my club’s BAM shoots. I load them so the recoil is mild and I can stay on target to work the gun faster. You don’t need hot loads to clang steel. I need to set up my chrono one of these days.

 

What about for Garand (170gr cast bullets with 35gr of 4895).

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  • 1 month later...
Does anyone out there make a gas checked spire point (or tapered rounded point) .30 bullet about 150-175gr to use in a Garand.  The Quality Casting 173gr doesn't like to feed reliably with its blunt point. The Montana Bullets 150gr spire point that I load for my O3 feed well, but I don't want to use a non-gas checked bullet in the Garand.
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Doc, that’s the bullet we all use with our garands from Purcella. I think that’s the bullet Burly Bill uses. I know maybe 20 shooters using them in garands with great satisfaction. What’s your overall length? Your rifle runs these 150’s just fine?  How is it jamming? Is the cartridge starting to leave the clip ?
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Cartridge  is pushed forward by the bolt but rides up over the chamber at an angle and hangs up about halfway out of the clip at about a 20 degree angle.  Never happens on the first or last round and always on a round out of the left side of the clip.

 

I seated the bullet to the cannelure. OAL = 3.135

 

The 150gr Montana Bullet OAL = 3.091

 

Happens with several different clips.  I run my clips through my case tumbler to clean them up.

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Doc---When I load Norm's bullet for the Garand, I seat the bullet so the front edge of the driving band is at the case mouth, which is about 3.100 inches. When Dusty was working up a load for the Garand, he had to get to 35.8 grains of IMR 4895 to reliably cycle the action. If you shorten your overall length .35 and increase your powder by .8 your velocity and pressure will increase. You may not be generating enough pressure to reliably run the gun. I load this combo  for many Garands and many others run this same load and have good results. This may not solve your problem, but it is an easy way to try. One thing you are right about, do not run a plain based bullet through a Garand. That is inviting trouble. Good luck & we'll see you at the state match...Hoodoo.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Both a good chamber pressure (actually, pressure at the gas port) AND a good gas volume is needed to cycle the Garand.  Lighter charges of faster powders like 2400 will fail to give, even with proper chamber pressure, the proper volume of gas for cycling.  About the fastest powder that I have seen recommended for semi-auto cycling of cast bullet loads in Garands is 4198, and slowest being 4064, and with real careful control of pressure, 4895.  Loading for the Garand requires really paying attention to protecting the operating rod from being bent by high pressure or high-speed action cycling.

 

Now, if you want to load with low pressures or volumes of gas, and will hand-cycle the action, that can be done with a wide variety of powders.

 

good luck, GJ

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I've relegated  the 2400 to bolt and lever gun use.  Also works well in .30 carbine.

Another issue I have to contend with is my club's desire that Garand loads be kept to as low a velocity as will operate the action as possible, to avoid damaging our steel target plates.

 

I've had it suggested to me with the bullets I'm using, I need to seat the bullets even deeper, to 2.95 inches.

 

 

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Another issue I have to contend with is my club's desire that Garand loads be kept to as low a velocity as will operate the action as possible, to avoid damaging our steel target plates.

 

This kind of thinking by clubs could kill GAMM.  The Garand isn't really designed to handle either reduced power cast bullets OR slow velocity (or super high velocity) with jacketed slugs, either.

 

The next step to keep folks shooting GAMM may have to be cardboard silhouette targets, and taping the hits.  Slower match, but at least folks will not have to pull off reloading miracles when some match director says "OK, max velocity is 1400 FPS for this upcoming match.  And nothing heavier than 130 grain slugs."  That would be just about impossible to make guns run, but match directors won't know that.

 

good luck, GJ

 

 

 

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Really the easiest and best way to avoid damage to targets with a garand Is not to become velocity obsessed but instead invest in AR500 targets. Not very many are needed to setup a GAMM and of course they can be incorporated into every thing else. 3 or 4 AR500 Targets won’t break the bank. Problem solved.
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