John Boy

https://www.facebook.com/1877453429185979/videos/1903701359894519/?t=3

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/images/products/thumb/hol002.jpg

Sarco ... http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/m1911wwiibrownleatherholster.aspx

 

  :) Seriously, though, don't sweat the small stuff.  Come out and have fun!

It seems that might be "hard to swallow"

But Allie - it sends a message with a capital M though!

I am a believer that at the firing line, there are 2 ways to show the TO that M12's do not have a live round in the chamber:  my old way that gives the same results & the Rule Book way.  So at a local match I did a my way,one time, and knew I was a candidate for a SDG

* At the loading table put the bolt in battery on an empty chamber and then put the safe on - then load six

At the firing line released the safety, pulled the trigger and the loud 'click' was heard.  Yes, I said - SDG? and after discussion with the TO and MD and the Rule Book, I got my SDG but this one time only ... I was allowed to finish the stage because the book had to be read for the exact wording

 

I grew up on Ithaca 37's and the safe was always engaged with an empty chamber before I loaded and went into the field or blind

Fifty Nine pages of detail CAD drawings

 

http://brlcad.org/design/drafting/M1911-A1_REDUX.pdf

I'd try here for the part ... http://www.colt.com/Contact.aspx

I am looking to getting less recoil to compete with 9 MM using my 45 acp, I just need to be over 125 power factor.

Vicious, here's a PF calculator for the how to Cx

http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmpf-5.1.cgi

Using the calculator with a published powder charge of 3.5gr of Trail Boss, the PF is 151.3

Here's the source for the reload ... http://www.reloadammo.com/45loads.htm

Once you've fiddled with the low PF, the open question then is ... will it consistently eject the spent case and put the bolt into battery for the next round

http://animagraffs.com/how-a-handgun-works-1911-45/

 

658 fps is the velocity that generates the 151 PF with a 230gr Pb bullet & TB powder charge

A 550fps velocity generates a Power Factor of 126.5

Vintage 2002 Rossi '92 Winchester, 45 Colt - 454190 mold, 250grs - Bhn13.5 or 15.4 -  lubed with 40:40:20 mix of mutton tallow:paraffin:beeswax -  Zero Leading with probably close to 15,000 BP reloads shot in the rifle.  Add also a comparable number of handgun reloads with the same bullet & lube ... still Zero Leading 

 

...do they gunk up barrels or even damage them?

NO!

We meet at least once a month (from May to November) at the Cap Pele Gun Range

August, it would just be a different approved match at their club.  The Cap Pele Gun Range would have the insurance coverage - not the WB match

Frenchy, a tip about magazines ...

They can be all over the place, mixed up and missing.  I took a DYMO Labeler set the font to 18 pitch and printed JOHN BOY.  Then I stuck the labels on the bottom of all the magazines

Frenchy, the fastest way to decrease attendees is to ask them to help set up 5 bays at 8:00AM - 11:00AM Safety Meeting - 12:00PM Match Start and with a posse 15-20 have the match end around 6 to 6:30PM.  And usually the setup is for the CAS Match the next day.

 

Set up 2 bays for WB, vary the steel & scenarios - 9:00AM Safety Meeting and start shooting at 9:30 ... and limit the magazines per scenario to 4

Declaring it on the line and showing it is what matters.

Boggus - I agree 100% ... showing is what does matter

If I may - let's discuss the how between a Model 1897 and Model 12:

This rule book requirements really is applicable to '97's that have an external & visible hammer that can be either placed on the safety setting or hammer down - of course both positions on an empty chamber - that the TO or an astute RO can identify too

Page 12, Jul 2014 Handbook

 

RANGE OPERATIONS

• Loaded shotguns must be staged with the muzzle downrange, the action closed,

the chamber empty, and the hammer either on the safety notch or fully down.

(Failure to comply, SDQ

 

As for the Model 12's, the RO Committee made the decision for assurance that the internal hammer is down accordingly:

• Shooters using the Model ‘12 shotgun must follow this additional safety

procedure:

Under the direct supervision of the TO/CRO on the firing line they must point the muzzle

in a safe direction and pull the trigger. If the hammer falls, SDQ. Failure to follow this

procedure is a SDQ. It is the shooter’s responsibility to ensure this procedure is followed

before beginning the course of fire

 

I support a much safer way for discussion by the Committee to determine that the Model 12  internal hammer is down on an empty chamber:

* At the loading table, with an open action, show the LO that the chamber is empty

* Rack the forearm forward

* Set the external (visable) trigger lock to the safe position ... the pin physically blocks the trigger precluding that the firing pin can be put into battery

* Then load the magazine tube

* At the line, the shooter points the muzzle in a downward safe position

* Moves the trigger lock pin off safety to the fire position

* Pulls the trigger

* The TO hears an audible noise of the hammer dropping that is positive proof that that hammer is down

 

The deficiency with the current procedure is: with a light trigger finger push and a heavy trigger pull ... and no audible sound ... there is no assurance that the Model 12 hammer is down!

 

Think about it, the model 12 has an external visible trigger lock - and is currently no being used to show and determine with an audible sound that the hammer is down at the line before staging the shotgun and course of fire

 

Blackfoot , there is a Version 7.1 of the Match Director Handbook?

If, what is the link because SASS does not have it listed

re: Model 12 ... How often, if any, has your Loading Officer(s) watched & insured that you put internal hammer down before loading and leaving to go to the line?  The next time may be my first!

And I believe this occurs because the majority of the shotguns used for WB are '97's

WB Match Director Handbook v6, pg 6

Shotgun

* Must be a Winchester 1897 or clone in 12 gauge. Civilian or Military style

 

WB RO Aug 2014 – pg 19

Minor Safety Penalties

• Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard while moving.

• Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard while reloading.

• Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard when clearing a malfunction.

 

STAGE DISQUALIFICATION

• Unsafe firearm handling.

• Failure to have the trigger finger outside the trigger guard : moving, reloading, clear malfunction are Unsafe Firearm Handling

Why a MSV and not a  SDQ?

 

Boggus, your right but old habits are lasting ... I shot pumps from the age of 10 and the safety always went on before loading my Ithaca 37's after pulling the trigger

Allie - just rack the forearm hard both ways and your Model 12 will treat you kindly

And don't forget to rack it on the LT and put the safe on ... you know the penalty at the line if you don't  :'(

And cleaning is no different, use a good bore solvent to remove any lead left in the barrel.

I wish!

After trying many solvents to remove leading in bores ... a 50:50 mix of ATF or Marvel Oil and PURE Spirits of Turpentine 

If the pistol was the last gun fired, what is the recorded time?

Sounds like the handgun is the last firearm shot of the scenario.

 

Why dump the rounds?

If it was me - drop the magazine with the 2 rounds - eject the round in the chamber with the slide in a locked position - stage it.  Then under the direction of the TO checked clear and made safe, then holster

I have tendency to jack out a live round  occasionally  from either gun .

Nawlins - pumps will run like a Swiss watch if:

* Full pump rear

* Full pump forward

And don't baby the slide when your pulling & pushing. 

" the finest pump ever built"

Dusty when the Winchester Pederson Model 17 patent expired ... Ithaca Gun Works cloned an improved Model 12 - the Ithaca 37.  My good friend - IMO that pump gun is the finest action and smoothest ever built.

 

Following the First World War, the Ithaca Gun Company was searching for a pump-action shotgun to produce, primarily to compete with the ubiquitous Winchester Model 1912. They settled on waiting for Remington Model 17 patents to expire. After gearing for production of the Ithaca Model 33, they discovered a Pedersen patent that would not expire until 1937; along with the introduction date, they changed the model designation from 33 to 37.

 

After WW-II, Ithaca resumed production of the Model 37. Made in many different models, the Ithaca 37 has the longest production run for a pump-action shotgun in history, surpassing that of the Winchester Model 12 that had originally inspired Ithaca to produce pump-action shotguns.

Those of you who prefer the Model 12 to the 97 - why so?

Ziggy, for no other reason than I never wanted to own a '97 because I don't like them - growing up shooting pump shotguns from the age of 10.  I don't like Marlins either and have never owned one