Pecos Clyde

OK Many have asked for an explanation of the Stage Point Scoring System, myself included. I cannot see a reason to allow posts to this topic as is is simplyan explanation. Explanation of the "Stage Points Scoring System” The Stage Points Scoring System (SPSS) used at the WBAS World Championships in 2012 is an adaptation of the method used for many years by IPSC. It is simplified from their version which uses "hit factor" as the divider. Since we don't have different power factor divisions and we don't have targets with different scoring rings the system we use is the total stage time (raw time + misses + penalties - bonuses) as the divider. (denominator) It is important to understand that using SPSS scoring for awards is WITHIN CATEGORY. In WBAS there are 4 categories (MT,MM,LT,LM). Shooters in the other 3 categories have NO effect on the shooters score. Unlike most scoring systems where all shooters at the match are grouped together and scores are determined based on overall finish within the whole, in this system only shooters within a given category are scored against each other. For years shooters have questioned SASS scoring systems that scored all shooters in a match against each other even though categories differed so markedly in equipment and shooting style. The SPSS results are a straight line based purely on the shooter's time against the best time for the given course of fire (stage) within their category. There is no "bell curve" as seen in rank points, and the more difficult Course of Fire (COF) has more value (stage points) which is not reflected in a Total Time match. The system is a compromise between Rank Point and Total Time scoring. The match results using SPSS are more closely aligned with TT than RP. When using SPSS some advanced input from the COF (stage) designers to the scoring system is necessary. Every HIT required is worth 10 points. A COF of 20-10-6 requires 36 hits so it is worth 360 points. A COF of 20-6-5 requires 31 hits so it is worth 310 points. A COF of 10-10-4 requires 24 hits so it is worth 240 points. A pistol only stage of 25 hits is worth 250 points. Bonus targets are NOT required hits so they are not included in the COF count. If hit they are just deductions from the total stage time. The value of each COF must be input into the scoring system. This is what allows more difficult COF's to be of greater value. For every COF (stage) there will be 4 shooters who get ALL the stage points (MT,MM,LT,LM). Each shooter gets a % of the stage points based on the winning time of the best shooter within their category. EXAMPLES: Stage 1 COF (20-10-6) requires 36 hits so it is worth 360 stage points. MM winner shoots it in 20.05 seconds. Gets 360 stage points. Another shooter in MM shoots it in 21.03 seconds: 20.05/21.03=.9534% X 360=343.22 stage points. Another shooter in MM gets a SDQ. A SDQ gets 0 stage points. MT winner shoots it in 22.06 seconds. Gets 360 stage points Another shooter in MT shoots it in 24.05 seconds: 22.06/24.05=.9173% X 360= 330.23 stage points. Another shooter in MT shoots it in 30.05 seconds: 22.06/30.05=.7341% X 360= 264.28 stage points. LM winner shoots it in 21.46 seconds. Gets 360 stage points. Another shooter in LM shoots it in 23.86 seconds: 21.46/23.86=.8982% X 360=323.35 stage points. Another shooter in LM shoots it in 44.64 seconds: 21.46/44.64=.4807% X 360=173.05 stage points LT winner shoots it in 23.04 seconds gets 360 stage points. Another shooter in LT shoots it in 25.65 seconds: 23.04/25.65=.8982% X 360=323.35 stage points. Another shooter in LT gets a DNF. A DNF gets 0 stage points. As can be seen the stage points awarded are a straight line (not a curve) based on each shooter's total stage time. It doesn't matter whether there are 2 or 2000 shooters in the category. To get the "Top 10" or "Sweet 16" or just the top overall Male and Female a SEPARATE calculation run is made with only the top shooter regardless of category receiving all the stage points for each COF. (This is the system currently used by both the TT and RP systems by SASS from which they pick the individual category winners and placements). SPSS is currently in the SASS scoring system used by CD Tom at EOT, but I don't know when a new release with it will be issued. It is also in the A.C.E.S. system that was demonstrated at EOT and was used by T Bone at his recent matches. It is a fairly simple calculation so a spreadsheet to do it would be easy. Is SPSS perfect?? NO. No system that is workable over a wide variety of stage designs that is simple enough for widespread use is perfect. This system has proven to be simple enough for widespread use and still allow for more complicated COF's to have higher value. Many attempts have been made over the years to make more difficult COF's have higher value based on some formula of movement, target size and distance, but all have failed. Assigning different values to individual targets based on perceived difficulty by the designer have resulted in anarchy. Over tens of years and hundreds of thousands of matches SPSS has proven to be the most fair and accurate of all those tried.

Hey DKC Reference the 8 round magazines.....YUP YOU CAN!!! In either case you can only load a maximum of 5 rounds though. PC

UM Likely you spoke to the one of the same guys that initially told me how great TRIPP mags were. I just kinda thought that was his opinion. After inspecting my Colt XSE I found the same thing you did on your pistol.....and now I own TRIPP magazines. The worst thing was after I bought the Tripps I had to tell him he was right......hated that..... Had them aboout a year now and they have worked great thus far.

I witnessed the "spectacular magazine failure" this weekend in the WBAS warm up match. It really catches your eye to see all the stuff flying out of the bottom of the pistol!!! The shooter had told me on the stage before that they had gotten a real good deal on the "lower priced" mags. Honestly, if someone is having magazine related malfunctions in their 1911, buying higher quality magazines really does help alleviate the problem. PC

GR The website you probably want is: http://www.sassnet.com/ SASS is the parent organization of Wild Bunch Action Shooting, Cowboy Action Shooting, and Mounted Shooting. Click on that link and take a look. Lots of information there ref. cowboy shooting. Of course you are always welcome here. As to getting started without alot of expense, if you need to buy the firearms necessary to play the game there really isn't a cheap way to do it. You need 2 single action revolvers, a lever action rifle chambered in a pistol caliber, and a double barrel, lever action or pump action winchester model 1897. Then of course you need holsters a gun belt and some method to carry shotgun shells. If you can afford the equipment you will find that it is FUN, and the people involved are FREINDLY. good luck, you are always welcome here! Pecos Clyde

Gosh darn it Wild Bodie Tom!!! :D If them guys buyin the "less expensive" magazines shoot in my class (modern) I was hoping they would buy them really "inexpensive $4.98 magazines....you know the ones that are sold as Colt factory magazines because they say Colt on the floorplate...... But NOOOOOOO, here you come with your sage advice and now I have absolutely no competitive advantage...none....zip....zero....nada. Thanks pard. PC :D :D

ML I know of 2 types of McCormick mags...the shooting star and the power mag. One of those models does come with a removeable extended base pad.....I just don't recall which one. Look for a scre in the bottom of the black plastic extnded pad. PC

Please list items that are related to the Wild Bunch shooting discipline only. Posts selling/swapping your Harley, boat, AR15 ect will be deleted. You MUST follow ALL applicable laws in regard to selling any item that has a restriction.....frirearms laws for transfer/sale must be adhered to. You should consider getting, and giving all pertinent contact information for the buyer and the seller before the sale or swap is complete. Currently the Wild Bunch Swap and Sell board is for private party transactions only, not for vendors or businesses. We are evaluating the concept of having a seperate board for vendors.

If you choose "other" in the poll please post the name brand magazine you usel