Dantankerous

Pete, I have kinda been on the search too. Seems like owning a true piece of history is always a winning combination. Dan

Is there a preferred or at least more useful barrel length with a shot guns used in Wild Bunch? I have a Model 12 with modified choke and currently a 28-inch barrel I'd like to cut down to something a touch more maneuverable. It's a plenty good shotgun so it might see uses a home defense gun as well. At least in theory. What do you guys like to run for barrel lengths on your 97s and Model 12s?

Hey Buckeye! Good lookin' Smith 1917. Indiana Jones made that somewhat popular with gun guys (although modded with a 4"barrel) in Raiders. It recently gained a lot more interest as it was used by Brad Pitt's character in the excellent movie FURY. Always a great gun for the collection!

Oh, I understand WB is NOT CAS with a 1911. I think this overall misconception perhaps I and others initially have about WB is that as it is offered as a side match at some large CAS events that it IS mostly a side match. I would much rather Wild Bunch be a standalone event and I certainly consider it as such. It is offered as such at End of Trail and I hope to participate there my next EoT visit. The problem seems to be with generating and continuing interest in Wild Bunch as its own separate shooting event. As a separate costumed shooting discipline I am all on board. But for reading about early WB I have no idea what the origins were as I simply was not around at the time but it sounded like a lot of fun. It also sounds from many disgruntled Cowboy Shooters on the other board that things have changed in Wild Bunch to the point where a lot of shooters have been disenfranchised, disappointed and even left due to rule changes and such. Whatever. I'm not here to discuss that. I simply have an interest in what Wild Bunch was and certainly to participate as it is now. My thought however remains and is fortified by your position that Wild Bunch is indeed it's own event. Why not then have a side match with Wild Bunch separate from the main WB match but in conjunction with the main match allowing for other types of firearms of interest to WB shooters (as having been discussed here and on the other board), much like pocket pistol or derringer are in cowboy? Separate interest, separate discipline, separate scoring. Just something allowing for the other toys to get some play time? I have been to several large matches over the last year where 1911 speed pistol was offered as a side match for cowboy. That seems to generate some interest and it certainly is a heck of a lot of fun. Still just wondering as I wander... On edit: Looks like the BAMM events are side matches at EoT this year. Aren't those considered somewhat of an extension of Wild Bunch?

Ain't Wild Bunch a side match in itself? Maybe the side match needs a side match allowing revolvers like the 1917 previously mentioned? Old school double action revolvers, other interesting Firearms of the period just because it would be darn fun? Just friendly postulation... :)

Although I cannot comment on the fellers you mentioned I can comment on the Winchester Model 12. I recently acquired one, a 103 year old Model 12 to compete in my first Wild Bunch match at a local cowboy match. The gun is totally unmodified and ran flawlessly. I don't want to beat up a firearm this old so I got lucky on GunBroker and acquired another one. Much newer and in fantastic condition. This one also runs flawlessly. These things are an absolute joy to load up and run as fast as you can. I had a Coyote Cap 97 model I never could get the hang of for Cowboy so I sold it. That was long before I ever decided to do Wild Bunch. Kinda wish I still had it... The Model 12 is a fantastic shotgun for anybody thinking about it however.

Very informative. Thanks for posting. Kind of hurt though to watch him cut up a perfectly usable W12. Cut the barrel down in front of the bulge and have fun!

Heck, I thought buying more equipment was part of the fun! :) Lots of good ideas here. Personally, I just need more TIME!

Well, I bought it. 8) Serial number puts it the 1914 production year. Blueing is mostly gone but it is in great shape with no rust, and works quite well, although a tad stiff. 30" full choke barrel. Fit is tight between frame and barrel assembly. Wood is better than decent, especially considering this shotgun is 103 years old. Loads and fires 6 rounds just like the day it left Winchester. http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh91/coloradoblackbear/IMG_2919.jpg http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh91/coloradoblackbear/IMG_2921.jpg

I have an opportunity to purchase an early serial number model 12 with a nickel steel stamped on the barrel. Google does not show much except nickel was the alloy used in production at the time. Any pros or cons to that particular gun? Gun seems to be in very good condition overall. Thanks!

Wild Bunch rules state that pistol mags have to be on the opposite side of the shooter's body from the pistol holster. I presume it is legal however to keep extra rifle rounds or shotgun ammo on the same side of the body as the pistol holster? Won't be any room left on the offside anyway if you are only using one belt. Is my presumption correct?

Kinda sounds like WB costuming revolves around the period military dress. How about anything else maybe just specific to the movie?

I just found this stuff. I presume it would be legal in WB just like the Herters ammo is? https://goodtogoammo.com/product/45-acp-230-gr-red-viper/ And as a bonus, it is brass.

Besides at EoT and maybe Winter Range, are there any ever WB costume contests at State or Regional level matches? I know there are some GREAT CAS costumes that the men and ladies wear and is certainly part of the cowboy shooting fun for a lot of us. What about Wild Bunch? What costume might win or place or be recognized? Accurate representation of an early Army soldier? Anything else interesting? Just curious. Thanks.

I ran 100 rounds of said Herter's brand 45 acp through my 1911 today. Shoots a bit hot but works quite well. Was happy to see the performance of gun and ammo was spot on. Accuracy out of a 5" 1911 was more than acceptable. I have no idea how it would chrono but I am certain it meets PF. No light load there! Now, Cabela's need to lower their prices even more for the Christmas shopping season. :D

That Road to Perdition match sounds like a hoot. However, I am not trying to stir anything up here with respect to adding a Tommy Gun to WB. I only observed that I had seen a TG in a WB match on video and had in inquire. Heck, itsa Tommy Gun. How could I not? Thanks all! :D

Allie Mo, Thank you. Makes sense to head off Murphy at the wrong time. Ammo problem, mag problem = Mr Murphy. Now, how about carrying an extra 5 rd loaded mag so when the shooter drops the loaded mag on a mag change? I am betting some shooters have that extra just in case too. I'd hate to fumble fingers my way into 5 misses. ::)

Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV9YtN9zivw Another, looks like same match. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-DYYq8fKfA And another. Same match. He's getting after it here. 8) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zmO4pcpTsY I am guessing this was done just for fun an evaluated as a P for the wrong firearm. I am pretty sure I have see other videos of the TG at a WB match but cannot find them now. Whatever the case, looks like fun. ;D

Happy Jack, What I've been seeing in some of these videos is a semi-automatic version of the Tommy Gun. Currently made by Auto-Ordnance under Kahr. Now, I have seen full auto versions of the Tommy Gun being used in Zoot Suit shooting and that looks even more fun. My understanding is that Zoot Suit is run by guys who have done lots of cowboy, steel challenge, IPSC, etc, and are very accomplished shooters. I have no idea which model Goatneck might be referring to for the upcoming End of Trail but the model I was asking about is certainly the semi auto version only.

On several occasions while watching Wild Bunch videos on YouTube I have seen where a competitor comes to the line with a Tommy Gun. I'm guessing this is something only done at the club level and never allowed at a match (nor do I remember there being a Tommy Gun in the movie...) as the gun was invented after the 1899 time frame Wild Bunch uses for its rifles. Looks like a heck of a lot of fun!

I just saw that stuff today at Cabela's. You're right it is a decent price. I'm assuming it is a lead core and therefore legal for using Wild Bunch? Does that nylon coating tend to clog rifling though? Any feed reliability issues with it? How are those aluminum cases on 1911 extractors? I don't mind using aluminum case ammo oin Glocks or something else with a much larger external extractor but 1911's sometimes develop shorter life spans on their extractors if you don't run brass ammo, I have heard although have never personally experienced this because so far I have never used aluminum cased ammo in a 1911.

I have been loading 45 Colt since 2009 or so. Got that covered. I would not mind reloading another caliber, just need to get other stuff set up first. I'll check Bone Orchard. Thanks.

I have been looking at the model 12. Seems like a solid choice. I once had a '97 but never could get the hang of loading it on the clock so I sold it. I shoot Classic Cowboy so a '97 just don't git much use... until I figgered to try WB. Ugh... I handled a couple 12's down at Red Dirt Rampage and probably should have purchased one but at the time I needed to do some research on them. Most recently missed out on a beaut at Cabela's too. Bummer. Does the extra "safety" step in showing the 12 safe at the line ever cause problems? I'd imagine you fail the check once and you'll never forget to do it again. The '97 does have a certain look I prefer over the 12 though, most certainly the WW1 military version. I know, heat shield is unnecessary, but it is stylish. the 12 seems to have a bit more reliability over the '97 from what I have read. Comments? I have done some IDPA and know what you mean about putting empty mags back in a pouch. :o

Until I get set up to reload for 45 ACP and dial in my reloads properly I am wanting to find and use factory loaded ammo. An internet search does not turn up much available for WB in 230 or 200 LRN. Ultramax through Midway USA and Cabela's seems to be the best priced. Any problems with this Ultramax ammo in 230 gr LRN in terms of being reliable, clean/dirty, meeting PF, etc? A search did not turn up much. :'( except for maybe two accolades for Ultramax. Appreciate the help.

I am well past a 34" waistline these days. Should be more than enough room on my belt for 3 double mag pouches if not 4 without creating a problem. ;D Thanks for all the help, folks.